The longest running Amphibian Community on the Internet.

Tags Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Caudata.org Store

Notices

Tiger Salamander & Axolotl (Ambystoma tigrinum, A. mavortium spp, etc.) The Tiger Salamanders and the Axolotl are so popular amongst hobbyists that they have been given their own topic. If you're particularly interested in the Axolotl, there is a large section of the forum devoted mainly to beginner Axolotl enthusiasts (not this topic).


Reply

 

Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 4th January 2015   #1
Vanja
(vanjaif)
Member
 
vanjaif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 34
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: vanjaif is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Andersoni, Axolotl or a hybrid?

Hey!

2 days ago I picked up my new axolotl.
She is 12cm and has had a ruff start in life.
She is missing both gills and toes, but she has an amazing color and pattern I have never seen before, the camera doesn't even do her justice.

A lot of people have commented my Instagram pictures, and told me she cant be an axolotl.
So I'm hoping some of you can help, is she a full breed axolotl? Can it be an Anderson or a hybrid?

Thanks
Vanja
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0025.jpg
Views:	888
Size:	54.9 KB
ID:	40824   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0031.jpg
Views:	815
Size:	78.5 KB
ID:	40825   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0033.jpg
Views:	586
Size:	66.7 KB
ID:	40826   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0130.jpg
Views:	798
Size:	44.8 KB
ID:	40827   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0104.jpg
Views:	439
Size:	39.5 KB
ID:	40828  




vanjaif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015   #2
alanaswindell
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 1
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: alanaswindell is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Andersoni, Axolotl or a hybrid?

Kinda looks like its about to morph, or isn't an axolotl. But I could be wrong, sometimes axolotls just look like this! Hopefully someone will come along and know for sure, so you can know exactly what to do!



alanaswindell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015   #3
Aaron
(ThoseNewtsTho)
European Newt Group
 
ThoseNewtsTho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 21
Posts: 848
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 1
Rep: ThoseNewtsTho has given consistently excellent advice and informationThoseNewtsTho has given consistently excellent advice and informationThoseNewtsTho has given consistently excellent advice and informationThoseNewtsTho has given consistently excellent advice and informationThoseNewtsTho has given consistently excellent advice and information
Default Re: Andersoni, Axolotl or a hybrid?

I think its just a very pretty axolotl, A. andersoni is very hard to come by in the US, and I believe all the hybrids were kept to observe or culled.
Here is a thread about A. mexicanum, A. andersoni hybrids though:
http://www.caudata.org/forum/f1173-a...andersoni.html



__________________
\_(ツ)_/ \_(ツ)_/ \_(ツ)_/
ThoseNewtsTho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015   #4
nai live
(xxianxx)
Prolific Member
 
xxianxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 2,566
Gallery Images: 4
Comments: 7
Rep: xxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.org
Default Re: Andersoni, Axolotl or a hybrid?

It looks like an axolotl though it does show unusual patterning which is reminiscent of A.andersoni, it also shows a smaller tail to body ratio of which again is reminiscent of A.andersoni. However it is unlikely to be an A.andersoni/A.mexicanum hybrid as they have the body shape of A.mexicanum, its also definetly not A.andersoni as it lacks the webbed back feet. Its a nice looking axy , probably with a regenerated tail from an injury.



__________________
Phibs available atm A.andersoni, axolotl ,alpine newts, ribbed newts normal and leucistic.Available latter in the year golden mantella, T.verrucosus and B.variagata.
xxianxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015   #5
JM29
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 227
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 1
Rep: JM29 has given good advice and informationJM29 has given good advice and informationJM29 has given good advice and information
Default Re: Andersoni, Axolotl or a hybrid?

I keep axolotls (definitely Ambystoma mexicanum) and I once gave 2 offsprings to a nephew. Several months later, one of them had this unexpected but pretty color.



JM29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015   #6
auntiejude
Axolotl Enthusiast
 
auntiejude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 3,686
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: auntiejude is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgauntiejude is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgauntiejude is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgauntiejude is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgauntiejude is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgauntiejude is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgauntiejude is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgauntiejude is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgauntiejude is considered an Authority at Caudata.org
Default Re: Andersoni, Axolotl or a hybrid?

I don't think it can be anything other than A. mexicanum. It's very nice one, and I agree with Ian that the markings are very andersoni-ish. But it's the wrong colour for andersoni, and the feet are wrong. And I don't think any breeder would sell an andersoni for axolotl prices!

I have wildtypes with similar markings.



__________________
I've given up counting since it changes on a weekly basis. I keep axolotls, salamanders, newts, a beardie and an oscar.
My Facebook axolotl page
auntiejude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015   #7
Jake
(jAfFa CaKe)
European Newt Group
 
jAfFa CaKe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 379
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 4
Rep: jAfFa CaKe has given good advice and informationjAfFa CaKe has given good advice and information
Default Re: Andersoni, Axolotl or a hybrid?

Yes, Andersoni are much more expensive! You are correct, it does look to be a she.



jAfFa CaKe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015   #8
elKendo97
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 53
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: elKendo97 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Andersoni, Axolotl or a hybrid?

I too believe that this is an unusual pattern of axolotl



elKendo97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015   #9
Rodrigo
(Azhael)
Site Contributor
 
Azhael's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 34
Posts: 6,645
Gallery Images: 19
Comments: 2
Rep: Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)
Default Re: Andersoni, Axolotl or a hybrid?

I vote hybrid. Julia's hybrids show the same distribution and pattern.



__________________
Please become acquainted with the forum rules.

Useful Links: Caudata Culture | Species Accounts | Care Articles | Newt and Salamander FAQs | Axolotl.org | Axolotl FAQs | Forum Functions.


Non Timetis Messor.
Azhael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015   #10
Elena
(esn)
Prolific Member
 
esn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 518
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: esn is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgesn is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgesn is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgesn is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgesn is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgesn is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.org
Default Re: Andersoni, Axolotl or a hybrid?

I vote hybrid as well. Very similar. Andersoni are prone to morph though. Keep an eye on gill growth/recession.



esn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015   #11
Vanja
(vanjaif)
Member
 
vanjaif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 34
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: vanjaif is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Andersoni, Axolotl or a hybrid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alanaswindell View Post
Kinda looks like its about to morph, or isn't an axolotl. But I could be wrong, sometimes axolotls just look like this! Hopefully someone will come along and know for sure, so you can know exactly what to do!
She isn't showing any signs of morphing, her gills was eaten by fish. Or maybe damaged thanks to the fact that her previous owner kept in a water over 25 degrees celsius.

Does anyone know if its possible to know 100% what species she is? Or is this just going to be a guessing game? I was hoping to introduce her to my other axolotls when she gets bigger, but not sure if it is a good idea if she is a hybrid? All my axolotls are girls so I'm not planing on breeding them, but I have heard that Andersoni can have a higher temper than axolotls. Is this true?

Honestly I didn't know Andersoni existed before someone commented that she looked like one



vanjaif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015   #12
Vanja
(vanjaif)
Member
 
vanjaif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 34
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: vanjaif is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Andersoni, Axolotl or a hybrid?

Oooh and I live in Denmark, people in a Danish axolotl group told me that its possible to get an Andersoni in Denmark. But i can't find any information online to support that. So as far as I can see they aren't in my country at all.



vanjaif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015   #13
LadyAquarius
(Bette)
Prolific Member
 
Bette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 975
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 4
Rep: Bette has given good advice and informationBette has given good advice and informationBette has given good advice and information
Default Re: Andersoni, Axolotl or a hybrid?

Whatever it is, it's very beautiful. It is possible that it could be a hybrid.



__________________
I breed & raise almost every color morph! Eggs available occasionally. Check out my Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/AquariusAxolotls/
Bette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015   #14
Elena
(esn)
Prolific Member
 
esn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 518
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: esn is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgesn is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgesn is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgesn is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgesn is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgesn is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.org
Default Re: Andersoni, Axolotl or a hybrid?

Pretty much impossible to know for sure. The head is a little more rounded than mine. The coloration and the chin/neck area resemble andersoni more, but I really do believe it is a hybrid.

If you don't plan on breeding I see no reason why you couldn't put her up in the axolotl sorority. I had no problems keeping my andersoni and axolotls together. They do tend to be more active and energetic, especially during feeding time, so I would just make sure that you have a good amount of space for her. My andersoni also ended up being 13 and 14 inches, so consider her space requirements to be more axolotl and a half.



esn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015   #15
Vanja
(vanjaif)
Member
 
vanjaif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 34
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: vanjaif is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Andersoni, Axolotl or a hybrid?

Wow I hope she gets that big She is 12cm now (approx. 4.7 inches), and my 13 months old axolotls has stopped at 25-26cm (10 inches).

I will keep her by herself until she gets older and at least as big as my axolotls. Then I will also get to know her mood and energy level better. Right now she is the most calm animal I have ever owned, during the day the barely moves at all.



vanjaif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015   #16
auntiejude
Axolotl Enthusiast
 
auntiejude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 3,686
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: auntiejude is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgauntiejude is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgauntiejude is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgauntiejude is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgauntiejude is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgauntiejude is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgauntiejude is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgauntiejude is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgauntiejude is considered an Authority at Caudata.org
Default Re: Andersoni, Axolotl or a hybrid?

A. andersoni cannot tolerate higher temp at all, in fact they are more sensitive to heat and prefer cooler water than axies.

Are you able to find out where the previous owner got her from?



__________________
I've given up counting since it changes on a weekly basis. I keep axolotls, salamanders, newts, a beardie and an oscar.
My Facebook axolotl page
auntiejude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th January 2015   #17
Vanja
(vanjaif)
Member
 
vanjaif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 34
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: vanjaif is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Andersoni, Axolotl or a hybrid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by auntiejude View Post
A. andersoni cannot tolerate higher temp at all, in fact they are more sensitive to heat and prefer cooler water than axies.

Are you able to find out where the previous owner got her from?

I'll try to write the previous owner

How much more sensitive are they for heat? I keep my axolotls pretty stable at 16-18 degrees celsius.



vanjaif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th January 2015   #18
nai live
(xxianxx)
Prolific Member
 
xxianxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 2,566
Gallery Images: 4
Comments: 7
Rep: xxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgxxianxx is considered an Authority at Caudata.org
Default Re: Andersoni, Axolotl or a hybrid?

Im suprised at the number of people who think this is a hybrid, of course everything in this thread is opinion rather than fact, so everyones opinion is valid. However considering this animal to be a hybrid purely based on its colouring/patterning is probably misguided, wild type axolotls display a wide range of patterns and colouration, which can change depending on environmental conditions. Hybrids have a greater tendency to change appearance than axolotls and the animal in question actually looks more like an A.andersoni than my hybrids have done over a period of time. The pic shows hybrids after they have been kept in a light environment

http://www.caudata.org/forum/members...cynops-042.jpg

If you check the hybrid thread in this forum you will see just how variable hybrids are , if the animal in questions gills are encouraged to grow they could give additional evidence of whether it is a hybrid. If you check hybrid pics you will see that they hold them forward far more than axolotls do
http://www.caudata.org/forum/f1173-a...andersoni.html



__________________
Phibs available atm A.andersoni, axolotl ,alpine newts, ribbed newts normal and leucistic.Available latter in the year golden mantella, T.verrucosus and B.variagata.
xxianxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th January 2015   #19
LadyAquarius
(Bette)
Prolific Member
 
Bette's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 975
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 4
Rep: Bette has given good advice and informationBette has given good advice and informationBette has given good advice and information
Default Re: Andersoni, Axolotl or a hybrid?

http://www.caudata.org/forum/members...cynops-042.jpg[/QUOTE]

Thank you xxianxx for sharing the pic. Nice looking animals! I really like the wild type/spotted patterning.



__________________
I breed & raise almost every color morph! Eggs available occasionally. Check out my Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/AquariusAxolotls/
Bette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th January 2015   #20
Elena
(esn)
Prolific Member
 
esn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 518
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: esn is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgesn is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgesn is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgesn is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgesn is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.orgesn is a well respected, valued and knowledgeable member of Caudata.org
Default Re: Andersoni, Axolotl or a hybrid?

Mom
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxianxx View Post
Im suprised at the number of people who think this is a hybrid, of course everything in this thread is opinion rather than fact, so everyones opinion is valid. However considering this animal to be a hybrid purely based on its colouring/patterning is probably misguided, wild type axolotls display a wide range of patterns and colouration, which can change depending on environmental conditions. Hybrids have a greater tendency to change appearance than axolotls and the animal in question actually looks more like an A.andersoni than my hybrids have done over a period of time. The pic shows hybrids after they have been kept in a light environment

http://www.caudata.org/forum/members...cynops-042.jpg

If you check the hybrid thread in this forum you will see just how variable hybrids are , if the animal in questions gills are encouraged to grow they could give additional evidence of whether it is a hybrid. If you check hybrid pics you will see that they hold them forward far more than axolotls do
http://www.caudata.org/forum/f1173-a...andersoni.html
I was guessing based on head shape, but you are right in that it is entirely possible that it is pure andersoni. But because OP was told that this was an axolotl, the situation gives the impression that it is most likely a hybrid and the previous owner was not told it was andersoni either, meaning it was bought as an axolotl. If the original seller did not say it was an andersoni, it's more likely an unconscious hybrid. Maybe I'm biased because of how difficult true andersoni are to find in the U.S.

But if OP is not breeding, it doesn't matter all that much. They stay active at colder temps that axolotls do. I found that mine really liked the 45-50 Fahrenheit range.



esn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads

Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hybrid Ambystoma mexicanum x Ambystoma andersoni bellabelloo Tiger Salamander & Axolotl (Ambystoma tigrinum, A. mavortium spp, etc.) 149 2 Weeks Ago 22:49
Axolotl / Tiger Salamander Hybrid? joeyasaurusrex Newt and Salamander Help 13 8th August 2016 08:31
Hybrid? Elliriyanna Axolotl General Discussion 23 7th April 2014 02:09
Tiger Salamander / Axolotl Hybrid? joeyasaurusrex Axolotl Eggs, Larvae & Breeding 14 6th December 2012 15:44
Ambystoma andersoni (not an axolotl) michael Photo & Video Gallery 28 2nd October 2011 15:52


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:20.