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Near and Middle Eastern Newts (Neurergus) Arguably the most beautiful newts in the world, this Asian genus is highly desired by many hobbyists.


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Old 16th April 2009   #1
John
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Default Neurergus kaiseri prices

(Before I begin, I am not looking to buy these animals or acquire them in any other way. I am simply conducting some research).

I am wondering what people have been paying or what price they have seen Neurergus kaiseri for sale, both wild-caught and captive bred. I want the price, so you don't absolutely have to name the seller but you are welcome to do so.

Thanks.



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Old 16th April 2009   #2
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Default Re: Neurergus kaiseri prices

Now or fairly recently I have seen prices between 120-130 for both captive bred and what look like wild caught. While I was interest in some CB specimens, I refuse to pay such an inflated price for either. I feel that paying high inflated prices will just encourage illegal collecting.



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Old 16th April 2009   #3
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Default Re: Neurergus kaiseri prices

I find that what encourages illegal collection is buying WC animals.
Ive seen CB juveniles for prices around 50-60 euros...way too expensive for me, but the price seems to be falling.



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Old 16th April 2009   #4
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Default Re: Neurergus kaiseri prices

John, I've seen them on a certain site you dislike for anywhere from $100-$150+shipping.



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Old 16th April 2009   #5
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Default Re: Neurergus kaiseri prices

I've heard of someone selling CB juveniles on caudata.org privately for about $125. I must admit I have a problem with that.



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Old 16th April 2009   #6
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Default Re: Neurergus kaiseri prices

Prices have fallen a tad, I think $120 is about the mean. I think their are probably a few hundred of them new to the US right now.

This is quite saddening. I urge people who breed these to not encourage further wild collecting.



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Old 16th April 2009   #7
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Default Re: Neurergus kaiseri prices

The first time I saw them they were priced at $200. The prices I've seen lately is $100-120. I think they look pretty cool, but I'm gonna need that price to fall a good bit more before I'd consider buying one. $120 on an animal that may be WC and has, who-knows-what-disease, is quite a risky investment in my opinion.



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Old 16th April 2009   #8
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Default Re: Neurergus kaiseri prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by azhael View Post
I find that what encourages illegal collection is buying WC animals.
Ive seen CB juveniles for prices around 50-60 euros...way too expensive for me, but the price seems to be falling.
Of course that is true, however, if CB animals are selling for $130+, it still encourages others to think that they can make a fast buck with WC animals. Many unscrupulous dealers will try to pass them off and there are many buyers that just don't ask or care.
Ultimately it becomes supply and demand. Either create a total Prohibition or supply (read flood here) the market with cheap CB animals

I'm sure the large supply of cheap CB T.marmoratus has slowed the illegal collecting down substantially.



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Old 16th April 2009   #9
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Default Re: Neurergus kaiseri prices

Last year I sold c.b. juveniles for 80.00 ea. and true proven c.b. adults for 150.00. I think that is a fair price. If you look at 120.00 for a c.b. juvenile or 120.00 for a w.c. adult I think it is a toss up. The c.b. have a better chance of surviving. The w.c. will give you eggs sooner.

This year I'm not selling any N. kaiseri. I wound up paying for some c.b. ones that my supplier choose to steal from me.



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Old 17th April 2009   #10
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Default Re: Neurergus kaiseri prices

I paid for 2 adults 1 male and 1 female 160 euro.
And I have seen an fat female probably with eggs for 250 euro.



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Old 17th April 2009   #11
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Default Re: Neurergus kaiseri prices

Apart from the two charity fundraising auctions I have held, I have given away 36 CB N. kaiseri to experienced keepers to establish breeding groups which should now be nearing maturity.



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Old 17th April 2009   #12
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Default Re: Neurergus kaiseri prices

Quote:
Of course that is true, however, if CB animals are selling for $130+, it still encourages others to think that they can make a fast buck with WC animals. Many unscrupulous dealers will try to pass them off and there are many buyers that just don't ask or care.
Ultimately it becomes supply and demand. Either create a total Prohibition or supply (read flood here) the market with cheap CB animals
Spot on. As long as the prices for cb kaiseri stay above 25$, it is far too profitable for collectors to go to Iran, catch 200+ in a night, and sell them on the international market. If not the US or Europe, then Japan. Breeders are always looking to diversify and infuse the genetics of their colony with new animals. And there will always be enough people awed by the colors to buy them regardless of any lectures or common sense.

Sorry, but cb kaiseri should not be any more expensive than cb orientalis or any other newt. They're certainly not any more labor intensive or expensive to raise.

I know, I know...your initial investment was far greater than with orientalis...and so kaiseri continue to free fall towards extinction.



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Old 17th April 2009   #13
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Default Re: Neurergus kaiseri prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajc View Post
Apart from the two charity fundraising auctions I have held, I have given away 36 CB N. kaiseri to experienced keepers to establish breeding groups which should now be nearing maturity.
Well, that's exactly the kind of spirit we need. Peoples that don't care making money on this species. I hope that the peoples that got some juveniles from you, won't ask such high prices as some others do. Keeping the price high will lead kaiseri to extinct in the wild...



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Old 17th April 2009   #14
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Default Re: Neurergus kaiseri prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajc View Post
Apart from the two charity fundraising auctions I have held, I have given away 36 CB N. kaiseri to experienced keepers to establish breeding groups which should now be nearing maturity.
Great news, if a couple of the people you gave your to behave the same way as you have, then we should see a dramatic stop to Kaiseri being such an expensive animal, and hopefuly see a equaly dramatic fall in the number of WC individuals being removed from their habitat...



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Old 17th April 2009   #15
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Default Re: Neurergus kaiseri prices

The guy at my pet store asked if I wanted him to order some, they were available for $150 each (I declined). But prices are falling, weren't they $500 a pair not so long ago? I don't think $120 is too extremely bad, considering what the original breeder had to pay to buy them and the risk that was (not that many of us would actually charge that). They'll only be this expensive for a short time, in 5 years or even less, they'll cost the same as the average exotic cb newt.



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Old 17th April 2009   #16
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Default Re: Neurergus kaiseri prices

Well thanks for hijacking my thread everybody . I originally posted because I was informed of a member of this site selling CB offspring from WC adults for $125 through private communication rather than posting an advertisement (I wonder why) and I wanted to know just how crazy that price was at the present time.

I've always found the exorbitant pricing of these newts disgraceful, starting back with Sebastian Steinfartz in Germany around 2000. In his case (hi Sebastian if you ever read this - I'm sure you pass by the site occasionally), he's a well published caudate biologist who set the trend for charging a fortune for CB offspring, and people willingly paid through the nose. I'm not sure who is worse - a hobbyist and a scientist screwing other hobbyists and therefore putting the wild population in danger from collectors out to make similar money, or the people who pay nutty prices for these animals.

Much of the blame for the danger faced by these newts in the wild due to collecting must be laid at the feet of Steinfartz and other hobbyists who assist the commercial collectors in keeping these prices artificially high (and Steinfartz and his associates collected their first stock themselves in Iran - there's some irony in there).



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Old 17th April 2009   #17
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Default Re: Neurergus kaiseri prices

Quote:
Originally Posted by stavroske View Post
Well, that's exactly the kind of spirit we need. Peoples that don't care making money on this species. I hope that the peoples that got some juveniles from you, won't ask such high prices as some others do. Keeping the price high will lead kaiseri to extinct in the wild...
I was fortunate enough to have a group from Alan. Hopefully they'll breed next season. When they do I will be following Alan's example and getting as many animals into serious hobbyists hands for free. To flood the market you need to build the foundations first. If everyone breeding kaiseri took this approach it would kill these daft prices within years.



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Old 17th April 2009   #18
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Default Re: Neurergus kaiseri prices

I'm very pleased to see common sense prevailing here.

I help a friend who rescues/rehomes zoo animals and nothing is ever sold. This means that those serious about the conservation element of animal keeping are not penalised by the desires of 'collectors' who operate outside the organised structures. For instance, he now runs the studbooks for Flamingos and all parties are now governed by an agreement that says that nobody is able to keep fewer than twenty birds together in order that breeding opportunities are maximised for these extremely social birds. I hate to think of the retail value of twenty flamingos but to everyone breeding them that's not even relevant.



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Old 17th April 2009   #19
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Default Re: Neurergus kaiseri prices

I don't disagree with the spirit of the intentions in this thread. I , however, don't think one should blame buyers, hobbyists or sellers for the price. It's just the market forces at work. The value of the newts is whatever people are willing to pay. The only way to reduce the price is flooding the market with more newts or decreasing the demand for the newts, which I suspect will happen over time.

I just think it's a little wrong to blame a breeder who wants to maximize the value for his efforts. Maybe I'm just a bit more capitalistic. A high price on newts isn't necessarily a bad thing, as it also minimizes impulse purchases.



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Old 17th April 2009   #20
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Default Re: Neurergus kaiseri prices

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Originally Posted by pete View Post
I just think it's a little wrong to blame a breeder who wants to maximize the value for his efforts. Maybe I'm just a bit more capitalistic. A high price on newts isn't necessarily a bad thing, as it also minimizes impulse purchases.
It places a mystique on a newt, makes it fashionable, and therefore increases demand for it. I would much prefer all newts to be the same price, then we might actually choose species based on their merits as captives, not on "how cool" the species is.

I'm a firm believer in the idea that just because one can do a thing, it doesn't mean one should do a thing. Scalping fellow hobbyists is out of order in my opinion and I believe that's well known.



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