Toxins of eastern newts, Notophthalmus

FrogEyes · Mar 6, 2012

With Johnny's recent experiences and ensuing discussion, I thought this paper I just happened across would be of interest:
Chemical Defense of the Eastern Newt (Notophthalmus viridescens): Variation in Efficiency against Different Consumers and in Different Habitats

PLoS ONE: Chemical Defense of the Eastern Newt (Notophthalmus viridescens): Variation in Efficiency against Different Consumers and in Different Habitats

Azhael · Mar 7, 2012

Thank you for sharing this, it was a very interesting read!
The suggestion that fish are an indirect cause of lower newt densities was a particularly interesting thought. If bullfrogs are not deterred by tetrodotoxin at all, as it seems, what could be the cause of toxicity from Taricha?

SludgeMunkey · Mar 7, 2012

Azhael said:
Thank you for sharing this, it was a very interesting read!
The suggestion that fish are an indirect cause of lower newt densities was a particularly interesting thought. If bullfrogs are not deterred by tetrodotoxin at all, as it seems, what could be the cause of toxicity from Taricha?

I too wonder about that given that bullfrogs do not survive tarichatox, but seem to be able to shrug of tetrodotox.

Azhael · Mar 7, 2012

Doh..tarichatoxin, forgot about that....

FrogEyes · Mar 11, 2012

Here's another on a very closely related topic:
http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/herpetolog...****a_et_al_Notophthalmus_TTX_variability.pdf

Variability of tetrodotoxin and of its analogues in the red-spotted newt,
Notophthalmus viridescens (Amphibia: Urodela: Salamandridae)

orion · Mar 12, 2012

We do not have bullfrogs here yet where we have newts. The bullfrogs are not native.
WIKI
"In evolutionary theory, the relationship between the rough-skinned newt and the common garter snake is considered an example of co-evolution. The mutations in the snake’s genes that conferred resistance to the toxin have resulted in a selective pressure that favors newts which produce more potent levels of toxin. Increases in newt toxicity then apply a selective pressure favoring snakes with mutations conferring even greater resistance. This cycle of a predator and prey evolving to one another is sometimes termed an evolutionary arms race and has resulted in the newts producing levels of toxin far in excess of what is needed to kill any other conceivable predator."

Azhael · Mar 12, 2012

I checked the distributions of the three species and saw that bullfrogs were present in most of Taricha granulosa country, i ignored the fact that that distribution was new and not the original one for the species. because there was no mention of it and you know, i´m not that familiar with american herps. It makes sense that they´d be vulnerable to Taricha toxins if their cohabitation is a recent event.

SludgeMunkey · Mar 12, 2012

Azhael said:
I checked the distributions of the three species and saw that bullfrogs were present in most of Taricha granulosa country, i ignored the fact that that distribution was new and not the original one for the species. because there was no mention of it and you know, i´m not that familiar with american herps. It makes sense that they´d be vulnerable to Taricha toxins if their cohabitation is a recent event.

Next to goldfish, bullfrogs are the most invasive species in our country, closely followed by housecats and English starlings. I suspect leopard frogs are on that list too given their use in the live bait trade and their prolific behaviors. I have been unable to find anything concrete on their toxin resistance.

This thread has me brushing up on bufotoxin as well. I am curious if there is and convergence with notos and taricha on this matter, given our more common species will eat anything that moves too.

(Yes, I refuse to use that "anaxyrus' or whatever they heck that dude decided to call american bufonidae now. If you need to make a point, don't go all generation X and throw in a "cool" looking word...)

orion · Mar 12, 2012

The bullfrogs are not here you are wrong the are out in the flats

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