Tylototrition kweichowensis

Could anybody tell me what Hortag is? I frequently use Seramis as the bottom layer in my terrestrial setups since it is a good water reservoir. I haven't kept T. kweichowensis though.

Ralf

Hortag is a substrate used by gardeners.
It is made from clay (little gravel-shaped balls) I think and offers good water-retaining properties. Can be hard to get hold of.
It is used alot by people keeping Neurergus during winter months.
I think it is over-rated but that is just a personal opinion.

Matt, thanks for the info!

Ralf

Just as a footnote, a friend bought 5 CB kweichows for me, at Gersfeld, to add to my gene pool.

I find the fact that you intend to add kweichowensis DNA to your gene pool more than a little disturbing!

You`re a hard man Mike.....twas just a mynewt "slip of the tongue".
Enough of this frivolity.

Are "kweichows" regularly available at Gersfeld then?!
[Suddenly very interested of UK]

Jurgen Fleck frequently has them, and there's another man whose name I can't quite think of (he has bred offspring of Fleck's for a few years now). The thing is that they usually go out of car boots prior to the big exchange on Sunday so you have to have it planned out.

I believe there were only 11 animals for sale in the infamous car park, from a German breeder.
Both boxes were sold to British enthusiasts.

Any photos?
Chris

But be carful
Both breeders really like to sell to small Juveniles(At least ne of them at the moment),
which weren´t growing that well, and died surprisingly(?) within a month.
Againo you think you can publish a breeders name without telling him about that?
I´m currently raising Juveniles for someone else,
bred by one of the two persons, already mentioned and it was hard work, so far,...
It´s fun, keeping more than a dozen of different ages,....
Don´t mix both populations!
Curious, sad, but true:
Juveniles were offered in Gersfeld by the most popular breeder this year for 50 Euros each and were sold 15 minutes later to someone elso for 15,...They know that there is a market on the other side of the pond or on the island, so i think there´s someone,trying to prevent the situation, T.verrucosus is actually in:
Tons of breeders, keeping them to warm and creating a "fashion-animal", given in every hand, that´s offered,....
Greets,
Greets,

Unless someone makes it clear that they wish their name to be kept private, I do not see it as unreasonable to mention them in a forum like this. The last time I checked this wasn't some kind of illicit/cloak and dagger interest that we share.

I think the majority of those using Caudata.org will agree that any "publicity" they have received online has usually been of benefit to their hobby.

Keeping it secret that you keep and/or breed species x or species y is up to the individual but they should make anyone with whom they deal that they wish their identity to be kept anonymous.

I firmly believe that there is an elitist attitude held amongst some well known figures - I'm sure many of you can think of a name or two. I firmly believe that the individuals in question are not trying to prevent the creation of what you refer to as a "fashion-animal"; rather, these people are trying to keep the species to themselves or to their admirers, "elite allies" or perhaps those willing to pay through the nose for a species.

Your example of Tylototriton verrucosus is an interesting one. I personally don't agree with you in this case, but let us suppose that you are right. The number of people keeping and breeding this species in captivity now has meant that this species will likely be available indefinitely and people will probably never have to resort to acquiring wild caught individuals of this species. I for one think this is a very good aspect of the creation of your "fashion-animal", and hey, I don't see people asking for help on here because their T. verrucosus are sick, not breeding, or dying... do you?

Hi John
No, i don´t agrre in every case with you,...
Those two people already mentioned, NEVER use this board here regularly, so they won´t know, that names are posted in here.So they can´t answer,....
T.verrucosus:No, there aren´t many postings in here, describing real problems her, but they will come, if those beauties are further kept at those "warm" temperatures, frequently propagated on this board.(I´m sitting warm-dressed in here, while my animals are swimming round, in approx. 12°C water,.....And this is still "fall",..)
And hey, in germany there ARE actually people, having had problems with them, and i know some in holland.Unfortunately, most of them bought their animals as much too small individuals, often on large events, like those herp-shows everywhere.
AND, i could even drop a name of AG Urodelas blindest child,...,
who even lost his animals.
And he´s not the only one,...
They are bred THAT heavy, that a friend of mine was asked to sell Juveniles for 3 Euros each, to sell them on shows,.....
Of course, he didn´t agree with such idiotical practices,......
Greets,
Philipp

I don't see what this has to do with shows. I've had verrucosus for 3 years now and I've not varied my conditions much in that time. I have had zero problems. People who have had some of my offspring for up to 2 years don't seem to have problems either. As for people posting on these forums in response to my message, I think you feel I was referring to a particular individual but I wasn't - is there something you want to share with us?

I think it's healthy to disagree and I respect your opinions and experience. However, I do think that you are overly dismissive of methods that work well. I hope that in a few years time we can categorically say that both approaches to T. verrucosus are good.

Hi John
Thanks for all your answers up to now;-)
Well, yes i would really share something i had to see with you, but i can´t afford a lawyer these days,......
And yes, a lot of those people, keeping T.v in germany, would never get ANY animal of me,...
(i don´t know the persons, you gave any CB,....)
So sharing what i would really like to tell to you, would mean a lot of trouble,....
To or favourite discussion(;-)):
Well, at first, when getting my first T.v. some years ago, i thought parameters like yours were right, cause eggs were laid (but never raised, because i knew noone, i really trust and didn´t have these animals,...),newts were eating and so on,.....
But then i found out, that most temperatures, published for T.k., T.s. and T.t., weren´t THAT right, so i thought:What about T.v.?
I think that´s the point i´m defeating,....
And yes, i´m really waiting for what´s happening the next year.
Buton´t(And everybody)misunderstand me.My critic isn´t personal, as long as the person thought and read about what he´s talking about and his animals do fine;-)
Peaceful greets,
Philipp

Also agreeing to disagree, respecting experience etc... but Philipp, I really wanted to reply to this bit of your post:

"...(i don´t know the persons, you gave any CB,....)... Well, at first, when getting my first T.v. some years ago, i thought parameters like yours were right"

I keep CB T.v. from John - and their offspring - at John's parameters and they are the healthiest caudates you could dream of. If they eat that well and breed that well and never have any illness, chances are you are doing something right.

John has set the standard for these animals' husbandry and the evidence is to be found among many different keepers and many CB T.v.s.

Peaceful greets to you too,
Matt

Hi Matt
Don´t misunderstand me:The parameters i criticize are the same as Johns, but i didn´t get them of him!!!You all seem to forget some time, that T.v.
is kept in germany a little longer than in english-speaking countries, so i really can say that i´m not the only one, having done "my" experiences,....
You my respect johns work, but he´s not the first one,and his way´s surly not the only one, though he did well in keeping.
Think of that:Think of Johns parameters:Where´s the difference between his and mine?
-My range of temperatures is wider and my animals have a real dry part in their setup.
Johns way´s included!But right and left of the scale, i offer more/less!Got it?
Did you ever try that?It´s possible to offer wider range of parameters, so why don´t you do that?
Try thinking further than the border.
Thanks,
Philipp

Coming back to the original theme: T.kweichowensis.

As I attended Gersfeld I can report, that there were only few T.kweichowenis off-spring available. One usual breeder of this animals was there and sold them, but not for 50Euro/animal. (Philipp I think as you not have been to Gersfeld, you should not iniate any rumors). The second known breeder of these species was not in Gersfeld and I was told that his animals are still aquatil.

Hope that clearifies a little the discussion about T.kw.

Uwe

Hi Uwe
Yes, we are talking of the same breeder
And yes, a dutch friend of mine wanted to buy some and they were offered for him for 50 Euro/each
15 minutes later, he heard and saw someone else buying them for 15/each,....
About 2 meters away,.....
And don´t think of me telling things i don´t believe and heard of people, i don´trust,......
For sure, there´s a chance of this person, lying to me.But he´s someone, giving me animals for free just because he trusts me, i think,....
And it´s surely possible that my friend got wrong with fifty and fifteen.
But on the other hand "Fünfzig" sounds a bit less like "Fünfzehn",...
And they were talking german,...

So uwe, as you don´t know me, you should not start or participate any intrigue,....:-(

And the animals of the second breeder, aren´t in the water anymore.At least some,.....
Greets,
Philipp

Hi Philipp,

yes we should not argue about that to much.

Good to hear about the second breeder and the animals going on land. I hope he will have enough animals so the prices will stay in the 15-20Euro range.

see you

Uwe