Firebelly newt with swollen lip

melissaM · Nov 10, 2008

I have 2 firebelly newts for about 3 years. Just recently I have noticed one has a swollen bottom lip- there is swelling on one side of his lip. Acitivity level is normal as well as feeding. Not sure what it is? I have changed the water recently after I noticed this. The other newt is normal.
Thanks.

melissaM · Nov 11, 2008

Here are the photos of my newt's swollen mouth. Any suggestions what it is and how I can treat it?
Thanks.

jewett · Nov 11, 2008

The animal should be taken to a vet. Its possible the mass could be an infection such as an abscess, or a tumor. I think its a good sign that its behavior is normal and its still eating, but getting appropriate medical attention will give the newt the best chance for recovery. In the mean time, I would keep the newt cool.
Best of luck to you,
Heather

melissaM · Nov 11, 2008

Thank you Heather,
I will look into finding a vet with some knowledge about newts. In the past with other small "pocket" animals (Guinea pig), the vet didn't really know too much and the pig ended up dying a slow death. I ended up on forums for advice but no luck. My newt with the swollen mouth came up very quickly. He is in the 10 gal tank with another newt and the room temp is around 19-20 C- (not sure what that is in farenheit). Should I be doing something else? Thanks for you advice.

jewett · Nov 12, 2008

I do not think there is anything else you could be doing for it, but maybe someone else has suggestions.

I know what you mean about vets not always being able to offer help. I would think any vet could do a fine needle aspirate (FNA) and get an idea of the sort of cells involved, like inflammatory or basal or something, and hopefully have suggestions from there. No matter what medications , if any, the doctor prescribes I would double check the safety and efficacy of that drug with people here on the forum, as a vet once prescribed one of my newts with a potentially toxic drug.

melissaM · Nov 12, 2008

Hi Heather,
I phoned around today and found only one clinic (in a city that is around 750,000) that specializes in amphibians. I spoke to them on the phone and without seeing the newt it is obviously hard to diagnose. She suggested to take a needle aspirate and see if it is an infection or maybe it has gone into the bones or manybe she will have to debride the absess. It sounds like a little to much to me but it is difficult for the dr to suggest tx sight unseen. I think it would be quite stressful to transport the newt to the vet- 45 mins drive plus it is getting very cold here- snow and -5C. Apparently there is a moblie vet that I will contact to see if that is the better route.

Will keep you posted. Unfortunately, no one else has responded to my post to give me other suggestions, so I going with your suggestions as you seem more knowledgable about this to me.
Thanks again for your advice.
Melissa

jewett · Nov 12, 2008

I wish you and the newt the best of luck. Do keep us informed, as I am very interested in what the condition is diagnosed as, and what treatment the doctor recommends.

Jake · Nov 13, 2008

This reminds me a bit of an orientalis Audrey had a while ago: http://www.caudata.org/forum/showthread.php?t=49785&highlight=tumor+orientalis

achiinto · Nov 13, 2008

From the title of the post, you refer this as a firebelly newt. This doesn't look like a firebelly to me, it seems like a warty newt. Are you sure you have identified the newt species correctly?

Identification of the species now might have little help, anyhow, I wish you luck.

melissaM · Nov 13, 2008

When I looked up newts on the internet, I thought my two newts were firebelly newts. Now that you mentioned warty newt, I looked that up and of course there are many variations of that species. This newt does look very similiar to a warty newt- minus the crest. My newt that is ill, does have bumpy skin and is large- 3-4 inches but he has the "firebelly" look underneath. My other newt has smooth skin, same length, and features. they might be different species. I picked up these newts from the newspaper from a kid who didn't want them anymore. I am obviously not well informed as to what species they are. I could take more pictures to help with identifcation- if that would be helpful?
I am not sure if that really matters as to what is wrong with the newt? Maybe one species has more common ailments?

I am new to this forum and not well educated and looking for advice. I appreciate any that those can give.

NeonGeckoBubble · Nov 13, 2008

I never knew newts could get swollen lips.:dizzy:I hope he's OK.:talker:

Jennewt · Nov 13, 2008

Warty newts don't have a crest (except when the name "warty newt" is used to indicate crested newts). Oh the confusion of common names. You have a Paramesotriton. See
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/firebelly.shtml

Since this swelling came up very fast, that would suggest some kind of infection. I believe the thread by Audrey was about a more slowly-progressing problem, more like a tumor.

If you are able to make the trip, I wouldn't worry about transporting the newt in cold weather. As long as he doesn't freeze, he'll be OK.

Good luck!

melissaM · Nov 14, 2008

Thank you for your last comment. I looked up the warty newts and he does look more like them.(I have no idea which type of warty newt as they look very similiar). My other newt is exactly the same except he has smooth skin- could they be the same kind?
They are aggressive with one another- the smaller newt stays on land where the larger one(sick one) stays in the water.
How can I transport the newt to the vet without causing too much stress?- Just in a container with some water and a lid?
I took a closer look and noticed that his bottom "lip"/mouth is more swollen on both sides now. I am thinking it is more of an infection. I am wondering if this may resolve on its own, or do I spend lots of money to investigate? The vet quoted my $50 to walk in and then add the assessment such as an aspirate and analyzing the cells could cost a fair bit... Not sure how far I should be going with all of this.....

melissaM · Nov 14, 2008

Re: newt with swollen lip

Hi,
I just wanted to update you on the latest info I have received. I spoke to a vet over the phone and emailed her pictures as well. She thought from my description that it is an infection and this is what she suggested:
Use sealing salt and mix it with water to make a thick solution and apply it to the newt's mouth (lower lip) make sure he doesn't eat it- and hold it there for about 20 mins. Try this once a day for a few days to see if the swelling decreases. If not, call her back and she will come to assess out to my home!. She suggested using an antibiotic- Baytril- if the salt solution does not work. Does this treatment sound appropriate?

thanks,
Melissa

Kaysie · Nov 14, 2008

Re: newt with swollen lip

I've used Baytril before. It's amphibian-appropriate. As for the salt, I don't know.

In addition to vet practices, see if there are any vet schools in your area. They often work for much cheaper because it is a teaching institution.

Jennewt · Nov 14, 2008

Re: newt with swollen lip

I've never heard of applying a salt paste to an amphibian, but it's an interesting idea. Let us know how it goes.

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