Paramesotriton laoensis

Sure, I don't doubt the demand will remain high, but primarily in Europe, where there are so many salamander & newt hobbyists. Truth be told, these newts didn't sell that well at all in Japan. And as anybody familiar with the prices of herps in Japan can attest, $200 is not steep by Japanese standards. Fire salamanders sell for that much and a lot more, for example. A siren or a marbled newt can fetch about that much too. Also, they didn't necessarily sell for that much either, that was merely the listed price. When it comes to this being a one-off or not, I was referring to these particular individuals. There's a significant difference between somebody going all the way to a remote part of a remote country such as Laos themselves and personally collecting newts from the wild and selling them, and newts coming into a market through an established network that includes locally based collectors and middlemen. In a place like rural Laos, locals would have a strong incentive for to collect these animals, as even $1 is a lot of money to them.

(Message edited by TJ on April 28, 2006)

Fuzhongensis is drab in comparison...and from an equally small area...this hasn't stopped the animal getting to the near threatened status. That species is only a few quid and ends up in tropical fish shops where they're bought by people that dont have a clue... this conversation should be going on about most species....

Also, the prices in Japan were a lot more than in Europe...
There are also already rearings by several people of the newts c/b....

(Message edited by andrew on April 28, 2006)

Yeah, take a species like Tylototriton kweichowensis which is imported into the U.S., Europe, Japan all the time even though it's a <u>protected</u> species in its native land. One doesn't hear much conversation about that. Still, a key issue here with this laoensis case is the use of description documents to pinpoint the location of rare species (at least species that are rare in the market) for commercial exploitation. The herp trade in Indochina is pretty massive to begin with, with established routes and connections. Conditions may be in place for large-scale exploitation of this species too...

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update: here's another article, and this one mentions the salamanders turning up in Europe:

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/5/4/apworld/20060504151938&sec=apworld

sni:

"<font color="0000ff">Earlier this year, the salamander turned up in the pet trade in Japan, where it is commanding a high commercial price. There also have been reports of it being sold in Germany and Britain, the WCS said.

"The collectors are getting in before we understand the ecology of the salamander,'' said Michael Hedemark, co-director of the WCS Lao Program. "Our concern is that the population will be driven to extinction before we understand it better.'' </font>"

The articles calls the WCS the "World Conservation Society" but it is the "Wildlife Conservation Society"



(Message edited by TJ on May 07, 2006)

There is a store in Europe that sells Laoensis at the moment. Won't tell which store, because i'll maybe give someone bad ideas. This means there is a commercial trade going on at the moment.

Last year I went to Laos and Cambodia, and people there are poor. So Tim is right, the average income of a laotian is around $300,- a year. This means less than a dollar a day....

in comparisson, the store sells them at the moment for €150,- a piece

So I think It's important that no one buys Laoensis unless it is 100% sure that it is cb. A month ago I had contact with a german man on the forum here, and he wanted to sell some laoensis to me. He said he collected them in Laos, and this was cb offspring. On the dutch caudata forum (www.salamanderforum.nl.nu) there was a similar story. THis guy bought the newts, and 1 couple died. studies of the dead animals told him that it was 99% sure that the animals died because of stress.... I don't think that was captive bred!!!!!

So, Don't just buy newts to collect beautiful or rare species, look where they come from, and if they are wildcaught (Don't like that but ok) think about the concequenses this may have for the population.

Sorry for this story where it looks like I like to point at other people, but I just wanted to get this of my chest.

PS. Sorry for the possible bad english

Some new fotos of Laoensis c/b, second time that I have got eggs and larvae from Laoensis,







(Message edited by TJ on May 02, 2006)

Congrats Stephan,

very good news!
How did you manage it, temperature, terrestrial phase ...?

Paul

Excellent news Stephan, please keep us posted!

wow-how many so far? how big do they morph at? are the juvies good or picky eaters?

(Message edited by paris on May 02, 2006)

Stephan, good work! Please take as many notes as possible; number of eggs per female, temperatures, water quality data, days of development, growth rates, etc.
Virtually nothing is known on this species all data are of importance.

I haven't read any news...is there no news on the breeding?

I think especially these breeding notes are important to show that the keepers of this species can collect valuable information on the ecology of this species in contrast to the statement above "The collectors are getting in before we understand the ecology of the salamander,'' said Michael Hedemark, co-director of the WCS Lao Program.

You can help understanding the ecology, and you can also provide CB animals. In Laos they need to protect them and to cut off distribution lines. But if they don't care themselves (like in China where still hundreds to thousands of newts are shipped every year) it is difficult to fight it.

Sergé, I agree!
And I think it is necessary to build up a Register for this species, obligate all keepers working strong together.

Paul

You haven't heard any news from me because there is none. I've been checking for laoensis eggs but have found only snail eggs

Yes, a register is urgently needed as now you can still trace all individuals and make a good studbook of WC animals (make belly pictures of all individuals so they can be identified etc.). Let's not make the same mistakes as in the past. If you want to keep this species all in captivity you need to share information.

how do I know it is a female or male?
coz i have got 2 now and around 15cm each...but i have no idea what are their sex......

also what is the best temp for them...?


p.s i don't know how to upload my photo...could anyone teacher me...?please

this is my newt

are they the same SEX??



(Message edited by jennewt on August 11, 2006)

They look the same to me. But some species are difficult to distinguish outside of the breeding season. See:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/sexing.shtml

(Message edited by jennewt on August 11, 2006)

Turbo
I see some fish in the background. If I were you I'd take them out
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Mixing_disasters.shtml

Francesco
i took them all out, thanks for telling me that

and could anyone tell me what is the best temp for them and when is their breeding season~~??

thank you

Turbo, very little is known about this species, they were only discovered about 8 years ago and as far as i know only one or two people have bred them so far.
If they're like other Paramesotritons i've bred they'll breed around the first few months of the year.
I keep mine in unheated water all year round...the warmest their water gets in summer is about 72f....the coolest is high 50's fahrenheit.
Good luck with them