Underweight Paramesotriton hongkongensis

I have a single Cynops Pyrroghaster who is SERIOUSLY underweight - so skinny that you can see her poor little ribs. I've had her for about two years now, and I feed her as often as she will eat (either a whole live red wiggler (I think they're wigglers, they come from PetsMart) or a cube of frozen beefheart or bloodworms every third day - she won't eat more than that at a time, or more often)...but she just will NOT gain weight. She seems perfectly healthy, otherwise. Her appetite is just fine, there's no erratic behavior or signs of disease or injury at all - she's been just the same since I brought her home.

Any ideas?

Hi s1ren, long time no see. It sounds like you are feeding her well. Worms are the best food to fatten them up, and you are using that. It could possibly be due to parasites. Also, a skinny newt will tend to remain skinny. In other words, sometimes it's hard to fatten them up once they get skinny. If she's alive for 2 years though, she's probably OK at her present weight.

What is your water temperature? If the water is too warm your newt may be unable to digest her food properly. Cooler water means a slower metabolism.

Typically for interior parasites. Make an excrement checkup.
Paul

I'm not sure about the temp, off the top of my head. I'll check it tonight.

Paul...what do you mean by "excrement checkup". What would I look for?

Paul means a fecal sample (look at the excrement under a microscope to see if there are parasites). To do a fecal sample, the newt must be fed non-live food (no earthworms) for several weeks. Then the newt is kept on damp paper towels until it poops. Then the feces is examined, preferably by a vet, and preferably while the sample is still fresh.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Jennifer Macke wrote on Wednesday, 15 February, 2006 - 02:43 :</font>

"Paul means a fecal sample "<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
Thanks Jennifer!
Did not find the right English word
But I think it is not necessary to prepare them for several weeks. If the problem are the parasites, an experienced veterinary will see it.

Paul

Ahh, I see. Well, I guess a fecal sample is right out - there are no vets anywhere in town or near town that know ANYTHING about herps. *sigh*

The temp in the tank is (now) at about 74ºF - my others usually hold at about 70-72º, so this one's a little warm. There had been a plant shading the tank from a nearby window, and I moved the plant a couple of weeks ago - I guess I'll put it back.

Here's a picture of Margaret - I couldn't get a shot of her lengthwise, but, here you go:


(Message edited by s1ren on February 15, 2006)

Hi S1ren, the newt in the picture is no Cynops pyrrhogaster but a warty newt of the genus Paramesotriton. Might be a very skinny Paramesotriton hongkongensis.

Wow - you're the second person who's said that. How weird! I always thought she was a CP because of the orange/red belly with black spots, and the red line on her back (neither of which are apparent in this shot, unfortunately).

Interesting

I'm looking at the pictures of CPs and paramesotritons on Caudate Central...I honestly can't tell which one she looks more like. I'll have to get some better pictures, I guess.

ETA: wow, she looks a lot like the Hong Kong Warty newt pictures...

(Message edited by s1ren on February 15, 2006)

(Message edited by s1ren on February 15, 2006)

Yeah, that's no Cynops pyrrhogaster and seems indeed to be Paramesotriton hongkongensis.

Anyway, if no other moderators object, I'll be moving this thread and some other threads related to illnesses to the section for questions about newt health, so look for it there if you don't find it here anymore (this section is for discussion of genus-specific or species-specific matters).

Anyway, just a few days ago, I took a Cynops pyrrhogaster and 2 Cynops ensicauda to my herp vet for treatment of the same problem -- no matter how much they ate, they remained skinny. I didn't have the vet do a fecal check. I should have, but I went there for a more urgent problem. The vet gave them (orally) some medicine designed to to kill internal parasites (don't try prying open the mouth yourself as the jaw can be easily broken if one doesn't know what one's doing).







(Message edited by TJ on February 20, 2006)

Nice and rare photo set Tim, indeed. Thank you for that. Usually haven't get a chance to see such a veterinary operation where one is trying to give medicine for a tiny poor newt...

And I will also agree with Tim regarding that S1rens newt is representing too much of P. hongkongensis to me than been anything else, as I already stated earlier in other thread elsewhere... And what comes to the thinness of that newt, I have a same problem. No matter how much I consume and eat, I would not gain any extra weight nor get bigger or get mass what so ever either. Poor skinny boy just trying to hang on here in a freezing Antarctic region...

No problem, Tim. You could re-name the thread, too, since now it's incorrect

I am SO envious that you have a vet who can handle newts. When I called around town, half of the places thought I was insane, and half didn't even know what newts WERE.

I finally got some decent pics of Margaret, including some good belly shots - I'll post them tonight when I get home from work (forgot to do that yesterday).

(Message edited by s1ren on February 20, 2006)

<font color="ff0000">This thread has been moved here from the Cynops discussion area and the title edited to read Paramesotriton hongkongensis</font> -- TJ

Thanks, Tim. Sorry )

You guys sure have helped a lot!

No problem at all, s1ren

It's just that with so many people keeping FBN (if not axoltls), the Cynops section of the forum would rapidly fill up with illness-related posts when this is perhaps the best place for them, as the same sorts of problems equally affect other kinds of newts kept in captivity.

I sure hope your newt gets better! All I can suggest really is to keep feeding it as much as it'll eat per meal, and maybe increase the frequency of mealtimes, without allowing leftover food to accumulate, of course. Also, maybe feed it better quality bloodworms if they're available there (here, there are nutrient-fortified ones available, though they're more expensive). Or better yet, earthworms, as Jen suggested.

The dewormer I use is Panacur (fenbendazole) and only a small drop is to be used as it's pretty powerful stuff. Your local vet might actually have access to it as I think it's usually used for horses. Also, it may not be necessary to pry the mouth open as the dewormer can be added a piece of worm, for instance, and then fed to the newt.

You can do a search of the forums using the words "dewormer" or "parasites" and maybe get some other ideas. Also check out Caudata Culture for info

(Message edited by TJ on February 22, 2006)

Also, there are some vets in Austin that deal with herps:

http://www.herpvetconnection.com/texas.shtml

Woohoo! Thanks for the link!