The longest running Amphibian Community on the Internet.

Tags Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Caudata.org Store

Notices

Fire Salamanders (Salamandra) The first salamanders described, this diverse genus of species and subspecies can be found throughout Europe and the Near-East. They are the animals that first come to mind when most people hear the word "salamander".

Reply

 

Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 22nd January 2012   #1
DocZelop
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 19
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: DocZelop has started on the right path
Unhappy Fire Sal turned from bright yellow to dull orange - help !!

Hi everyone,

I've been keeping two captive-bred Salamandra terrestris sub adults for nearly one year. While both of them have been very lively and eagerly eating, one of them recently (like one week ago) from bright yellow to a dull orange. Also, its skin looks kinda dry. Sitll, it continues eating as usual (mostly earthworms and slugs).

I've read on this forum that this might be the sign of shedding, and thus pretty normal. Still I'm worried that the poor creature might be sick. What do you think ? Should I give it more vitamin supplement ?

If that might help, substrate is moist but not wet, viv is planted with live ivy, two burrows are provided in the form of half claypots, and there's a small fond of fresh water for the sals to bathe in...

Any help would be much appreciated !

Many thanks in advance !



DocZelop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2012   #2
Rodrigo
(Azhael)
Site Contributor
 
Azhael's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 34
Posts: 6,645
Gallery Images: 19
Comments: 2
Rep: Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)
Default Re: Fire Sal turned from bright yellow to dull orange - help !!

Try to upload a picture, it´s the best way for us to tell.
It could be caused by an aproaching shed but there could be other causes too, some of which are bad news. Is the tank properly ventilated? Stagnant air and fire salamanders don´t mix well, they are prone to skin infections. Make sure you have excellent ventilation.



__________________
Please become acquainted with the forum rules.

Useful Links: Caudata Culture | Species Accounts | Care Articles | Newt and Salamander FAQs | Axolotl.org | Axolotl FAQs | Forum Functions.


Non Timetis Messor.
Azhael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2012   #3
DocZelop
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 19
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: DocZelop has started on the right path
Default Re: Fire Sal turned from bright yellow to dull orange - help !!

Thanks a lot for the quick reply, Rodrigo !

Here are two pics I just took...
My main concern is that the skin looks dry, but otherwise the animal is not sluggish or shy...

Ventilation is pretty good, I think, both sals are housed in an ExoTerra viv, with meshed top. The other sal looks perfectly fine...

Let me know what you think, and thanks again !
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	rsz_img_1201.jpg
Views:	1012
Size:	61.9 KB
ID:	21299   Click image for larger version

Name:	rsz_img_1202.jpg
Views:	841
Size:	50.6 KB
ID:	21300  



DocZelop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th January 2012   #4
Rodrigo
(Azhael)
Site Contributor
 
Azhael's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 34
Posts: 6,645
Gallery Images: 19
Comments: 2
Rep: Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)
Default Re: Fire Sal turned from bright yellow to dull orange - help !!

To me it does look like the animal has retained shed skin. A problem with shedding could be caused by inadequate humidity levels, but also by skin infections. The best course of action is always consulting a specialized vet if that´s an option.
Usually, when skin infections are the culprit, you can see areas where the borders between yellow and black are difused by the alteration of the skin, however in the case of your animal it seems pretty well defined however obscured the coloration may be by the "dirt". I would be inclined to think it´s an issue with humidity that has caused difficulties in shedding and the retention of at least part of the shed. You could try increasing the level of humidity and see if the skin in the head changes consistency.

An exo-terra viv is not a great choice...Most models are too small, and the largest ones probably have too much ventilating surface compared to the ground surface they provide. What size is it? Bare in mind that fire salamanders can display a moderate degree of territorialism, each "owning" different areas. Without sufficient space, the inhability to stablish certain boundries could cause stress and in turn problems shedding, inhibited inmunity, etc. Then again, some S.salamandra are perfectly ok sharing space and can even be somewhat gregarious, it varies among individuals. Still, offering enough space is a safety meassure.



__________________
Please become acquainted with the forum rules.

Useful Links: Caudata Culture | Species Accounts | Care Articles | Newt and Salamander FAQs | Axolotl.org | Axolotl FAQs | Forum Functions.


Non Timetis Messor.
Azhael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th January 2012   #5
Jari Boerboom
(Jari B)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 92
Gallery Images: 1
Comments: 1
Rep: Jari B has shown reliable knowledge
Default Re: Fire Sal turned from bright yellow to dull orange - help !!

I had this with my Salamandra algira algira when I kept them inside. When I changed the terrarium everything seemed to be better but then they started to turn more grey again. I decided to put them in a outside enclosure and within 1,5 week they changed to their normal colour again and they are both healthy again.



Jari B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th January 2012   #6
DocZelop
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 19
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: DocZelop has started on the right path
Default Re: Fire Sal turned from bright yellow to dull orange - help !!

Thanks for the reply, Rodrigo !

I'll try to increase the moisture level, see if that helps...
The terrarium I have is medium sized (60x45cm base) so it provides ample space for two sals... Funny things is that they do show some level of gregariousness, often times sharing the same burrow.... I guess each sal has its own personality

Anyway, I'll keep you posted on the developments !


Thanks again !



DocZelop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th February 2012   #7
DocZelop
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 19
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: DocZelop has started on the right path
Default Re: Fire Sal turned from bright yellow to dull orange - help !!

Hi people,

for the record, the poor thing died yesterday...
It wouldn't eat anyway, so I had little hope... I've tried bathing the sal regularly, so that the old shed would fall off, but to no avail.

Thanks again for all the advice, and cheers !



DocZelop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th February 2012   #8
Andrew
(slatera)
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 38
Gallery Images: 3
Comments: 1
Rep: slatera has shown reliable knowledge
Default Re: Fire Sal turned from bright yellow to dull orange - help !!

Hi,
I had this problem recurring with a mature S. s. bernardezi male. It was ok the first time when I put him in a small plastic box with damp moss to help the shed, but the second time he just seemed to give up. My longterm set up for these is naturalistic with leafmould over layer of gravel for drainage, live growing ferns, moss and other native plants, area approx 900 x 300 mm. Other (younger bernadezi) and S. s. terrestris in a very simmilar set up have never had any problems, so i guess sometimes the individual just gives up.

Andrew



slatera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th February 2012   #9
Sergé Bogaerts
(sergé)
Prolific Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 51
Posts: 650
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: sergé is a mainstay of Caudata.orgsergé is a mainstay of Caudata.orgsergé is a mainstay of Caudata.orgsergé is a mainstay of Caudata.orgsergé is a mainstay of Caudata.orgsergé is a mainstay of Caudata.orgsergé is a mainstay of Caudata.orgsergé is a mainstay of Caudata.org
Default Re: Fire Sal turned from bright yellow to dull orange - help !!

It could have been a "nitrate intoxication". A problem that occurs much more often then people think. Fire salamanders need clean environments. As the produce very large excrements they pollute their own environment very easily. Therefor a less natural set up when you can clean more often or a large tank with a complete natural setting are the best options.
I prefer simple tanks where you can spot the droppings easily and remove them every week. To my opinion keeping two adult salamandra is such a small tank without the possibility of "easy cleaning" can lead to these problems. And indeed some individuals or subspecies seem to be easier affected than others.



sergé is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
color, dry, dull, skin

Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads

Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bernardezi babies some with yellow some with orange beefsteak Fire Salamanders (Salamandra) 8 13th January 2012 09:52
Illness/Sickness: Yellow Patch on Fire-Belly Newt A Weird Sister Newt and Salamander Help 7 16th October 2011 00:57
Wanted: Fire Salamanders (albino and orange) kevin Wanted in the European Union (including the UK) 0 1st October 2007 11:05
dull colour? phill2007 Newt and Salamander Help 3 10th July 2007 11:18
Fire Belly turned brown....HELP!!!! merissa Newt and Salamander Help 4 15th May 2006 08:37


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:54.