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Large Aquatic Salamanders (Hellbenders/Cryptobranchids, Necturus, Siren, etc.) This topic covers Cryptobranchids like the hellbender and Asian giant salamanders, as well as sirens, mud puppies, and amphiumas.

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Old 7th April 2007   #1
cameron
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Has anybody ever heard of The Red River Mudpuppy or have info on it. Necturus louisianensis? I never knew it existed. I checked Caudata Culture and didn't see it on the species list. I was reading about it in a book and became very interested in it. If anyone has info on it I would very much appreciate it. (I know Ryan will answer this post)Thanks for any comments.

-Cameron



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Old 7th April 2007   #2
Ryan
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Hi Cameron,
Your right I would never ignore a question about a mudpuppy! Anyway, the Red River Mudpuppy is considered a subspecies of Necturus maculosus (common mudpuppy, or Bart) by some and a full species by others. I however think of the Red River Mudpuppy as a subspecies (N. m. louisianensis).
*im gonna call the Red River Mudpuppy RRM*
The RRM reaches about 11 inches in length and looks pretty much like the normal Common Mudpuppy, except the RRM has a more yellowish ground colour. It retains its juvenile stripes (yellow) untill very old age. The ventral side is usually unspotted and yellow or white. There are also spots on the dorsal area. It is found in Arkansas, northern and central Louisiana, western oklahoma, lower Kansas, and southern Missouri.

Here are some links about the species:
http://herpcenter.ipfw.edu/index.htm...ndex.htm&2

there is a picture of one at the end of the page, I know it is a RRM because of the light color and where it was found:
http://www.lycoming.edu/biologydept/...s/arkansas.htm

Pics:
1. http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?query_src=&where-kwid=1111+1111+1111+5535&one=T

2. http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?query_src=&where-kwid=1111+1111+1111+5587&one=T

3. http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?query_src=&where-kwid=1111+1111+1111+5588&one=T (best pic of a RRM on the web)

This is a dark individual but I know it is a RRM because the photo was taken in Arkansas
http://www.amphibiainfo.com/gallery/...nensis_slc.jpg

Im not 100% sure that this is a RRM only because I don't know where it was caught, it has a light yellow ground colour so it probably is http://www.spekulantenguide.de/8/_Ne...sianensis.html

another dark one:
http://www.naherpetology.org/detail.asp?id=942
this was taken in Kansas so it is a RRM

Notice that not all sites treat them as a subspecies like me, some do but some such as the last link treat it as a full species.

Hope this helps!Click the image to open in full size.



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Old 7th April 2007   #3
cameron
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Thanks for that Ryan. I might be moving to northern Arkansas. My dad might be promoted to superintendent of Buffalo River National Park Service and heard about Red River Mudpuppies inhabiting the area so I was interested in learning more about them. Thanks for the links!Click the image to open in full size.

-Cameron



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Old 7th April 2007   #4
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Awesome, if you move there and catch any, could you post pictures because this is one of my favorite Necturus spp.!



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Old 7th April 2007   #5
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I'll look real hardClick the image to open in full size., that is...if my dad gets promoted. We already transformed our house into a wasteland. There is like one piece of furniture in each room. There is a really good chance we will move too. We are almost certain.



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Old 7th April 2007   #6
Ryan
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Do you want to move? I hate moving soooo much! I might not mind if we were moving to a Necturus infested place though.Click the image to open in full size.



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Old 7th April 2007   #7
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I really don't want to move actually. But...it seems as though I have to. I wanted to go to the University of Georgia after going through high school. I guess I'll have to go to the University of Arkansas or some other college.



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Old 7th April 2007   #8
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Well at least salamanders (and saturniids) will always be with you where ever you go, so will we.



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Old 7th April 2007   #9
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I found at least eleven species of salamanders and newts live there including what I hope to find the Grotto Salamander.



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Old 8th April 2007   #10
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Where, Georgia or Arkansas?



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Old 8th April 2007   #11
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Arkansas. I also wanted to see others like the cave salamander.

By the way I answered on my forum in case you didn't see.

(Message edited by slimy on April 08, 2007)



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Old 8th April 2007   #12
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Thats neat that you might get a Necturus in the future. You might get criticized by people on this forum *cough cough AnnMarie cough cough* if you do get one because its not CB, but I may make an atempt on breding of the smaller Necturus species in the future.



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Old 8th April 2007   #13
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Yep I am interested in the Alabama Waterdog. As a little kid I thought the larval Southern Two-Lineds in the creek were little Waterdogs. They look so alike. I am trying to get pics of them but I'll have to put them on a wet paper towel or something because I can't get good pics of them in the water.



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Old 9th April 2007   #14
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There are a few alabama waterdogs for sale on Glades Herps http://www.gherp.com/ for $55. If you plan catching an alabama waterdog which species do you mean? N. alabamensis from norther Alabama (rare species) or the more common N. species cf beyer from the florida panhandle and lower Alabama?



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Old 9th April 2007   #15
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If I ever do, probably the N. alabamensis since they have a closer range to here.



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Old 10th April 2007   #16
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I now recognize the Red River Mudpuppy as a full species, Necturus louisianensis. I got more info on the species and I have made this decision. I think there are 7 species in the genus.



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Old 10th April 2007   #17
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If you say so.



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