The longest running Amphibian Community on the Internet.

Tags Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Caudata.org Store

Notices

Newt and Salamander Help Got a problem? Ill newt? Basic questions? Ask about them here.

Reply

 

Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 30th August 2009   #1
Dana
(vistajpdf)
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 54
Posts: 348
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: vistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.orgvistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.orgvistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.orgvistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.orgvistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.orgvistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.orgvistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.org
Default Juvenile C. orientalis

Hi all,

I know this is very premature as my oldest morphs are only a couple of months old, but I was wondering when they are considered stable enough to find homes for? Also, how do you know when it's time to return them to the water? I have about 30 morphs and had my first fatality the other day. It looked very swollen, maybe bloated? I have to think we're doing OK unless they start dropping like flies since one passed on. I don't know when the most crucial time is during this morphing/juvenile stage - perhaps it's just beginning?

I'm still not convinced any have eaten, though I'm sure they have to have eaten by nowm especially my original four. I have to replace springtails and fruit flies regularly and I "think" the bugs escaping is not the reason! So, despite them not eating in front of me, and seeing some growth in the little ones, I have to assume they are doing well.

My sons began a Wild Over Wildlife (WOW!) club and the first meeting was Friday night. We discussed reptiles as I took the children on a sea turtle hatchling release that evening. I showed them the newts in their varying stages of development and to point out that they are not lizards or reptiles at all. Anyway, a number of the children are interested in the newts as pets and most of this group is pretty smart, so I don't have a lot of reservations about handing them over. I will have an entire meeting devoted to amphibians (It's called Straight A's: Athletes Applaud Amphibian Ark and we'll have a fundraiser to benefit Amp. Ark.) But, I wanted to know when it would be safe to relocate the juveniles or if I should wait for them to become aquatic again.

Thanks,
Dana



vistajpdf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th August 2009   #2
Rodrigo
(Azhael)
Site Contributor
 
Azhael's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 33
Posts: 6,645
Gallery Images: 19
Comments: 2
Rep: Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)
Default Re: Juvenile C. Orientalis

Well, it can take from 1-3 years for them to be able to go back to water...the fastest growing ones will almost certainly take around a year.
I personally would very wary of giving small morphs to kids....they are considered hard, and i definitely think itīs not the best idea. Not just for the poor morphs, but also for the kids. Even with help, itīs likely they wonīt succeed in raising them, and for a kid that can be very disheartening.
Iīm not saying itīs impossible, obviously...but as i said, they are not an easy species to raise, even for somewhat experienced keepers, let alone for beginners.

And after my personal observation xD, i hate to say that in my experience, the morphs can be given away as soon as they are eating well. Since you donīt know if they are(although a full tummy is all the signs you need), then iīd say it would be a good idea to wait until they are at least 4cm long. It may take a while, but with that size they are substantially more robust than newly morphed ones. That gives them a better chance to stand the process of adjusting to the new environment. you can probably give them away as soon as they morph...but pesonally i think thatīs risky...



__________________
Please become acquainted with the forum rules.

Useful Links: Caudata Culture | Species Accounts | Care Articles | Newt and Salamander FAQs | Axolotl.org | Axolotl FAQs | Forum Functions.


Non Timetis Messor.
Azhael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st August 2009   #3
Dana
(vistajpdf)
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 54
Posts: 348
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: vistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.orgvistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.orgvistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.orgvistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.orgvistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.orgvistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.orgvistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.org
Default Re: Juvenile C. Orientalis

Yeah, I was afraid of that. These kids are elementary school kids and while many of the children are wonderful examples of the next generation of conservationists, only a handful of the parents are as committed. So, if the child says they need to keep the A/C on for the newts, I'm not sure how many parents will listen...I do have one family that has raised every kind of animal, so they would be on the top of my list, but not until 1 year post-morphing or thereabouts, at least is safest. I feel so committed to these little guys - I'd be devastated to hear that they died a week after new ownership.

Tuesday, I'm going through the tanks again and resize the morphs as the ages have gotten mixed. I need to start another tank - try to keep the number to about 10 per container. One container is much larger, but I worry the little ones won't be as aggressive to catch food. I still don't think they can eat the wax worms I had but I hope soon enough, they will.

The boys have retrieved a couple of morphs and I want them all to be with equal-sized siblings so there is no competition for food. I finally told my older son that the newts just have to remain in his brother's cooler room, much to his dismay. He wants them to do well and I just notice the temperature drop to chilly, regardless of the A/C setting in the middle son's room.

How do you know when they're ready to return to the water? I realize it's a year or more off, but I'm curious and couldn't find anything in the search department or Caudata Culture unless I missed it.

As always, I appreciate your help,
Dana



vistajpdf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st August 2009   #4
Rodrigo
(Azhael)
Site Contributor
 
Azhael's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 33
Posts: 6,645
Gallery Images: 19
Comments: 2
Rep: Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)
Default Re: Juvenile C. Orientalis

Well, itīs complicated. My experience is very limited as i have only succeeded with one animal yet and itīs a male so, it was kind of obvious when it reached adulthood (he is with his parents now, a happy family n_n).
With males, when you notice sexual development(the cloaca becoming significantly larger) then it may be time to try an aquatic set-up and see what happens. With females it may be trickier, but iīd say that as a general rule, any C.orientalis larger than 5-5,5cm can be presented with the option of a water lifestyle so that it can decide. They have to be watched closely though, and have easy access to land, since they may drown. Itīs easy to tell if a given individual is not ready though.



__________________
Please become acquainted with the forum rules.

Useful Links: Caudata Culture | Species Accounts | Care Articles | Newt and Salamander FAQs | Axolotl.org | Axolotl FAQs | Forum Functions.


Non Timetis Messor.
Azhael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st August 2009   #5
Dana
(vistajpdf)
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 54
Posts: 348
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: vistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.orgvistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.orgvistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.orgvistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.orgvistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.orgvistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.orgvistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.org
Default Re: Juvenile C. Orientalis

Oh no! Of your 13 last year, only one made it? Or is he from a different year? Do you worry about him mating with his mother or I suppose that's not as dangerous as it can be with other animals?
Dana



vistajpdf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st September 2009   #6
rick
(merk199)
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 42
Posts: 364
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: merk199 has given consistently good advice and informationmerk199 has given consistently good advice and informationmerk199 has given consistently good advice and informationmerk199 has given consistently good advice and information
Default Re: Juvenile C. Orientalis

Are you covering the top of the enclosures with vinyl window screen. Are you using sterilite type containers. I can't remember. Two layers is usually virtually fruit fly escape proof.



merk199 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st September 2009   #7
Jennewt
Administrator
 
Jennewt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 55
Posts: 12,385
Gallery Images: 97
Comments: 46
Rep: Jennewt goes to 11Jennewt goes to 11Jennewt goes to 11Jennewt goes to 11Jennewt goes to 11Jennewt goes to 11Jennewt goes to 11Jennewt goes to 11Jennewt goes to 11Jennewt goes to 11Jennewt goes to 11
Default Re: Juvenile C. Orientalis

Good work with the WOW club and the fundraiser, Dana

The only way I can imagine that the kids could adopt the newtlets at this stage would be if you could teach a couple of the newtlets to hand-feed from a toothpick. Once they are reliably eating in this manner, I think kids could keep them fed using thawed bloodworms.

I make my tubs inescapable for the fruit flies by putting a layer of old cotton sheet between the tub and the lid.

I find that newts are usually ready for water based on size. The faster they grow, the sooner they'll be adaptable to water. For Japanese firebellies, it's around 2 - 2.5 inches, but they are a larger species than your orientalis.

Is there any chance you could get pinhead crickets, even occasionally? It's worth asking your local pet shops if they can special order them from their supplier. Other than worms, pinheads are the best "growth food" I've found for the little ones.



__________________
Useful Links: Caresheets | Newt & Salamander FAQs | Axolotl FAQs |My website | Forum Rules.
Jennewt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st September 2009   #8
Rodrigo
(Azhael)
Site Contributor
 
Azhael's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 33
Posts: 6,645
Gallery Images: 19
Comments: 2
Rep: Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)Azhael has maxed out Caudata.org's Reputation System (we are not worthy!)
Default Re: Juvenile C. Orientalis

Quote:
Originally Posted by vistajpdf View Post
Oh no! Of your 13 last year, only one made it? Or is he from a different year? Do you worry about him mating with his mother or I suppose that's not as dangerous as it can be with other animals?
Dana
Oh no, others made it too, but they were shipped to new homes, or are currently waiting for temps to drop to be shipped.
Iīm not worried about them mating together, because itīs not a big deal for caudates...nevertheless, i doubt the young fella will mate this year. Planning into the future, i also hope to find some CB orientalis from a different source to mix with mine and keep genetics fresh, but thatīs long term.



__________________
Please become acquainted with the forum rules.

Useful Links: Caudata Culture | Species Accounts | Care Articles | Newt and Salamander FAQs | Axolotl.org | Axolotl FAQs | Forum Functions.


Non Timetis Messor.
Azhael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st September 2009   #9
Dana
(vistajpdf)
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 54
Posts: 348
Gallery Images: 0
Comments: 0
Rep: vistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.orgvistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.orgvistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.orgvistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.orgvistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.orgvistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.orgvistajpdf is a mainstay of Caudata.org
Default Re: Juvenile C. orientalis

OK then. I need a trip to Spain so I can bring you some fresh genes for the CB program!

To everyone else, I've been using paper towels and hand towels under the sterilite lid to prevent escape of FFs and springs. The substrate is also plain white paper towels changed every other day, moistened. Some tanks have water bowls, some don't. I do lose some FFs to the water bowls.

Jen: I don't think I'd be comfortable just yet having the kids hand feed the little morphs. Even though they'd only have one, I'll wait for these animals to be lower maintenance. The adults are easy and as tedious as my "rounds" can be (add work 3 days/week, coaching sports and raising three young boys plus the rest of our animals), I'm not ready to take a chance with the newts. Thanks for your support in the WOW plans. The children are very excited. People truly will want to save what they love, love what they understand, and understand what they are taught, so I'm doing my best to educate.

Dana



vistajpdf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
juvenile, orientalis

Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads

Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Converting Juvenile C. orientalis to terrestrial? micstarz Fire-Belly & Sword-Tail Newts (Cynops & Hypselotriton) 5 4th March 2009 23:07
Juvenile cynops orientalis louise Photo & Video Gallery 7 9th November 2008 23:37
C orientalis adult and juvenile juraj Fire-Belly & Sword-Tail Newts (Cynops & Hypselotriton) 3 17th October 2007 12:25
Juvenile cynops orientalis ali Newt and Salamander Help 4 21st July 2006 04:47
Another New Juvenile! lauren Axolotl Gallery 11 11th August 2005 00:52


All times are GMT. The time now is 20:02.