The longest running Amphibian Community on the Internet.

Tags Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Caudata.org Store

Notices

Plethodontids and Lungless Salamanders (Bolitoglossa, Eurycea, Plethodon, etc.) The largest, and one of the most diverse groups of salamanders, these salamanders have all evolved to breathe solely through their skin and are found almost exclusively in North America.

Reply

 

Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 5th March 2009   #1
Lamb
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 31
Posts: 222
Gallery Images: 17
Comments: 9
Rep: Lamb has given consistently excellent advice and informationLamb has given consistently excellent advice and informationLamb has given consistently excellent advice and informationLamb has given consistently excellent advice and informationLamb has given consistently excellent advice and information
Default Desmognathus ID?

Click the image to open in full size. Click the image to open in full size.


I know that Desmognathus IDs can be a pain, but I wanted to get your input as to what Des. species this might be. From what is in the area, I've got it narrowed down to D. auriculatus and D. conanti. I've been looking for the lighter dorsal ragged edged spots that often show up in D. conanti, and hav enot seen them. I know that D. auriculatus as an adult can have various color phases, one of which included dark dorsolateral stripes (like this larvae is showing).

Has anyone seen D. auriculatus or D. conanti larvae? Any tips? Also, any idea how long till morph? From what I've read, it can take a few months, but a friend who raises salamanders says two months tops. This guy is about an inch from snout to tip of tail.



Lamb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th March 2009   #2
taherman
Caudata.org Donor
 
taherman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 380
Gallery Images: 1
Comments: 1
Rep: taherman is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgtaherman is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgtaherman is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgtaherman is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgtaherman is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgtaherman is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgtaherman is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgtaherman is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgtaherman is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgtaherman is considered an Authority at Caudata.org
Default Re: Desmognathus ID?

My first guess is actually a Eurycea, maybe guttolineata from the Desmog options you gave.



taherman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th March 2009   #3
Lamb
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 31
Posts: 222
Gallery Images: 17
Comments: 9
Rep: Lamb has given consistently excellent advice and informationLamb has given consistently excellent advice and informationLamb has given consistently excellent advice and informationLamb has given consistently excellent advice and informationLamb has given consistently excellent advice and information
Default Re: Desmognathus ID?

Even with the head as wide as it is at the jowls? Granted, I have had little experience with larval caudates, but my herp. professor thinks its a Desmognathus.



Lamb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th March 2009   #4
taherman
Caudata.org Donor
 
taherman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Posts: 380
Gallery Images: 1
Comments: 1
Rep: taherman is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgtaherman is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgtaherman is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgtaherman is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgtaherman is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgtaherman is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgtaherman is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgtaherman is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgtaherman is considered an Authority at Caudata.orgtaherman is considered an Authority at Caudata.org
Default Re: Desmognathus ID?

Ok, looked for a key (a few regional ones online and a complete one in Petranka) to support my hypothesis :) ....I think you can readily distinguish the larvae of Desmognathus by the gills. If the ramus is shorter than the filaments (basically indistinguishable), it's Desmognathus. This results in a clump of long gill filaments that look rather pompom-like. If the filaments are shorter than the ramus and clearly arranged on separate rami it is something else (probably Eurycea since it's a stream-type larva that is definitely not Pseudotriton or Gyrinophilus). Hard to see clearly in the photo, but I'm pretty sure I can see the separate gill rami on your larva.

My general impression of small Desmog larvae is that they have almost no snout, and have eyes situated VERY far forward on the head. Also the longitudinal dark stripes and yellowish coloration make it even more Eurycea-like.

Who is your herp professor? I welcome any corrections if I'm wrong about distinguishing the larvae, but I'm pretty sure that method of IDing desmogs is correct.

-Tim



taherman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th March 2009   #5
Lamb
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 31
Posts: 222
Gallery Images: 17
Comments: 9
Rep: Lamb has given consistently excellent advice and informationLamb has given consistently excellent advice and informationLamb has given consistently excellent advice and informationLamb has given consistently excellent advice and informationLamb has given consistently excellent advice and information
Default Re: Desmognathus ID?

You know, Tim, I think you might be right. I've looked through the keys I could find online, and at positive pictures of Desmog. larval IDs, and the gills don't look right for a Desg. The ramus are larger than the filaments (see the photo attached). Another feature of Desmog., from what I've read, is that their hind limbs are wider than the forelimbs, which is not the case with this guy. I'm sending the pics. around to get more opinions, but I might indeed have a Eurycea on my hands.

Jen
[IMG]file:///Users/jenniferlamb/Library/Caches/TemporaryItems/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG][IMG]file:///Users/jenniferlamb/Library/Caches/TemporaryItems/moz-screenshot-1.jpg[/IMG]
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0704.jpg
Views:	291
Size:	39.5 KB
ID:	5681  



Lamb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th March 2009   #6
Lamb
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Nationality:
Location: [ Members Only ]
Age: 31
Posts: 222
Gallery Images: 17
Comments: 9
Rep: Lamb has given consistently excellent advice and informationLamb has given consistently excellent advice and informationLamb has given consistently excellent advice and informationLamb has given consistently excellent advice and informationLamb has given consistently excellent advice and information
Default Re: Desmognathus ID?

I wasn't sure the photo posted, so here it is. You can see the ramus are longer than the filaments. Click the image to open in full size.



Lamb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
desmognathus

Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads

Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Desmognathus found henk_wallays Plethodontids and Lungless Salamanders (Bolitoglossa, Eurycea, Plethodon, etc.) 1 21st December 2008 12:34
CB Desmognathus welteri taherman Plethodontids and Lungless Salamanders (Bolitoglossa, Eurycea, Plethodon, etc.) 4 22nd November 2008 20:40
Desmognathus and Eurycea warrior Wanted in the USA 0 28th April 2008 22:09
Desmognathus taxonomy kristen General Discussion & News from Members 2 2nd April 2007 01:57
Another new Desmognathus erik Plethodontids and Lungless Salamanders (Bolitoglossa, Eurycea, Plethodon, etc.) 1 2nd October 2003 02:33


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:46.