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Warty Newts (Paramesotriton & Laotriton) & Paddletail Newts (Pachytriton Often sold incorrectly as Japanese fire-bellied newts, these territorial newts are distinct from other genera and very interesting in their own right.

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Old 27th August 2009   #1
ntny
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Default P. chinensis caresheet?

Dear Folks,

Anyone has P. chinensis caresheet?

i have just got 3 adult P. chinensis around 4 inches+, 1male 2 females all very healthy looking.
and i intend to breed them.

Currently keeping them in a 2FT tumblebox.
Covered the tumblebox to prevent escape but drilled small holes to provide ventilation.
water level was around 3inches currently.
lots of bog wood was provided
a few plastic plants
An Air pump with a sponge filter was used to clean and circulate the water.
feeding them with Bloodworms.
Current water temp was about 26*C

My Questions:

1) Whats the Highest temperature P. chinensis can tolerate?
2) Is natural plants and wood important for P. chinensis and breeding them?
3) What water level is recommend for P.chinensis ?
4) what other food recommend for P.chinensis, meal-worms?

thanks alot



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Old 27th August 2009   #2
Janusz Wierzbicki
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Default Re: P. chinensis caresheet?

1) Whats the Highest temperature P. chinensis can tolerate?
Hard to tell, depends on specimen, i think. But your temp is too hot, they should have 20-22'C or lower, not 26!

2) Is natural plants and wood important for P. chinensis and breeding them?
No, important is that newts need some substrate (like plants) for laying eggs.

3) What water level is recommend for P.chinensis ?
15 cm and higher.

4) what other food recommend for P.chinensis, meal-worms?
No, you should get earthworms as for foodbase, if they feed from tweezers you can also use crickets and waxmorms. Mealworms can be fed only if they're just molted. Newts also may probably eat frozen shrimps.



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Old 28th August 2009   #3
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Default Re: P. chinensis caresheet?

Hi Janusz Wierzbicki,

thanks for your quick reply.

1) yes i am currently, looking at some small chillers to cool down my tank.
but they are rather expensive.
And chillers only work with a fully aquatic setup?

2) so am i right to assume that with plastic plants and rocks they should still lay eggs and breed?

3) earthworms are not on sale in my country. i guess i will stick with bloodworms and tubfiex worms for a start.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahilles View Post
1) Whats the Highest temperature P. chinensis can tolerate?
Hard to tell, depends on specimen, i think. But your temp is too hot, they should have 20-22'C or lower, not 26!

2) Is natural plants and wood important for P. chinensis and breeding them?
No, important is that newts need some substrate (like plants) for laying eggs.

3) What water level is recommend for P.chinensis ?
15 cm and higher.

4) what other food recommend for P.chinensis, meal-worms?
No, you should get earthworms as for foodbase, if they feed from tweezers you can also use crickets and waxmorms. Mealworms can be fed only if they're just molted. Newts also may probably eat frozen shrimps.



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Old 28th August 2009   #4
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Default Re: P. chinensis caresheet?

There are several inexpensive things you can do to bring down the temperature of the water. See:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/cooling.shtml
Use a screen lid (instead of solid lid), move the tank to the coolest possible location, and use a fan to cool the water. If this doesn't do enough, add bottles of frozen water.



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Old 28th August 2009   #5
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Default Re: P. chinensis caresheet?

Hi jennewt,

Thanks for your good advice.

i am using the original plastic cover which comes with the tumblebox to ensure tight, escape free housing.
i have drilled many 8mm holes to provide ventilation.

1) is this cover good enough as to a screen lid?
2) i have tried using a normal tower fan to test the effectiveness of cooling, yes it did bring down the temperature by 2 degrees to 24*C.
i will be fixing 2 12cm PC fans on the plastic cover.
1 fan blowing in and 1 fan blowing out.

by the way, what's the temperature, for breeding P. chinensis?

Thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennewt View Post
There are several inexpensive things you can do to bring down the temperature of the water. See:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/cooling.shtml
Use a screen lid (instead of solid lid), move the tank to the coolest possible location, and use a fan to cool the water. If this doesn't do enough, add bottles of frozen water.



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Old 28th August 2009   #6
Janusz Wierzbicki
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Default Re: P. chinensis caresheet?

I think in such maintenance you can't breed them. Temperature is too high for them (especially for breeding) and box is for me not adequate tank for long time. In most cases, breeding is caused by temp drops below 20'C, when newts are well fed and you have both sexes.

Bloodworms and tubifex are not good idea as base for such big newts, in Singapore (your country, right?) you don't have any earthworms in normal soil, in forest or garden?



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Old 29th August 2009   #7
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Default Re: P. chinensis caresheet?

Hi Janusz Wierzbicki

just to seek advice from you.

1) i have increase my water level to 6inches and the 3 P.chinensis seems to love it.
they seems more active now with water level increase.
they often swims among the plants and 1 of them even climbs up the sponge filter to explore for a while.

2) as regard to "box is for me not adequate tank" why is it so?
maybe i need to change to a bigger tank than a 2FT?

3) as for earthworms, yes we have earthworms here. but we stayed in flats((singapore) and there's no gardens to dig them.
yes, i will definitely try to get some earthworms from some hobbists here.

4) Currently the most headache issue is the temperature. i managed to keep it at 24*C with high evaporation and Fans blowing. but i couldn't get it lower than 24*C.

do u think, putting in frozen bottles will help?
i am worry that such methods will cool the temperature to rapidly to fast and kill the newts.


btw i couldn't seems to find any Paramesotriton caresheets on the internet.

whats the closest spieces caresheet i can use as a guideline?

Thanks for your help and advice

have a nice day!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahilles View Post
I think in such maintenance you can't breed them. Temperature is too high for them (especially for breeding) and box is for me not adequate tank for long time. In most cases, breeding is caused by temp drops below 20'C, when newts are well fed and you have both sexes.

Bloodworms and tubifex are not good idea as base for such big newts, in Singapore (your country, right?) you don't have any earthworms in normal soil, in forest or garden?



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Old 29th August 2009   #8
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Default AW: P. chinensis caresheet?

Hi ksc133,
even the best of caresheets will not satisfy the needs of your newts. Your newts rely on you to provide them even the most basic captive care requirements like food and temperature.
It has been said before, but let me rephrase it. Despite some species coming from subtropical or tropical regions these animals (warty newts of the genus Paramesotriton) have to be considered as "temperate" organisms because of the temperature regimes in their natural stream habitats, often at higher elevations.

They might tolerate higher temperatures for some time, but 20 C (+- 2 C) is what you should aim at. For the cycling of the animals to get them into breeding condition they require a temperature drop down to 15-16 C, some even lower (depending on location). I have had individuals that would still happily feed at temperatures well below 10 C during winter.

Earthworms are the ideal staple food for these newts because of their nutritional value, their size and the way they move (as a trigger for predatory behaviour).

So before you can even think about breeding them, you have to make sure that you can feed and house them according to their needs. It is not my intention to be rude, but if you cannot do this you should not be buying or keeping these animals.

Hope this was helpful.

Ralf



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Old 29th August 2009   #9
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Default Re: AW: P. chinensis caresheet?

Hi Ralf,

thanks for your advice.

i definitely agree with you on your points.
the basic needs of the newts should be meet.

right now i am look a Resun CL400 chiller which has a affordable price in singapore.
i just need to confirm their specs that it can cool down a 2FT tank enough to 20-22*C.

regarding earthworms, i have got a source from fish farms here and bought 1KG from them.
thanks to guys at arofrantics for the source info.

thank you


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralf View Post
Hi ksc133,
even the best of caresheets will not satisfy the needs of your newts. Your newts rely on you to provide them even the most basic captive care requirements like food and temperature.
It has been said before, but let me rephrase it. Despite some species coming from subtropical or tropical regions these animals (warty newts of the genus Paramesotriton) have to be considered as "temperate" organisms because of the temperature regimes in their natural stream habitats, often at higher elevations.

They might tolerate higher temperatures for some time, but 20 C (+- 2 C) is what you should aim at. For the cycling of the animals to get them into breeding condition they require a temperature drop down to 15-16 C, some even lower (depending on location). I have had individuals that would still happily feed at temperatures well below 10 C during winter.

Earthworms are the ideal staple food for these newts because of their nutritional value, their size and the way they move (as a trigger for predatory behaviour).

So before you can even think about breeding them, you have to make sure that you can feed and house them according to their needs. It is not my intention to be rude, but if you cannot do this you should not be buying or keeping these animals.

Hope this was helpful.

Ralf



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Old 29th August 2009   #10
Janusz Wierzbicki
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Default Re: AW: P. chinensis caresheet?

Very nice to hear that you're going to give your newts very good conditions. With chiller you can keep your newts even in 18'C normally which is perfect temp for them, and cooling some degrees down when you want to stimulate them.
1 kg of earthworms is a very big portion, you can even try to start your own earthworm culture. I see you strongly want to breed your newts (properly!), so i propose you to start looking for some microfoods for larvae, as grindle worms, microworms (i'm not sure if thats proper name, translating from polish name of these tiny worms used as food for fish fry it would be "micro nematodes"), brine shrimp culture or daphnia (perhaps in Singapore you have some tropical daphnias too ).



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Old 30th August 2009   #11
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Default Re: AW: P. chinensis caresheet?

Hi Janusz Wierzbicki

yes, i am seriously looking into this hobby.

In Singapore these caudates are very very rare.
here used to have warty, firebellies, paddletails, axtols, mandairn newts 8-10 years ago. but very rare in recent years.

until last week i came across lots ofP. chinensis in a fish farm.

i got my earthworms today from a arofrantics forum friend.
yes my P. chinensis became very excitied when they see earthworms!!!they chom down a few Large worms!!!

The pet shops here have constant supply of live brine shrimp and daphnia.
so should not be a issue.

i will collect my Resun chiller on this coming tuesday.

Thanks all you folks for all the information and help.



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Old 1st September 2009   #12
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Default Re: AW: P. chinensis caresheet?

Hi folks,

just an update.
today finally got hold of my chiller and rushed home after work, heavy rain...
it was a 2nd hand Resun 450 chiller i got from a guy on forum who used to keep marine tank. cheap $140 Good, NO Warranty Bad.
cleaned it up and hooked up my chiller, very noisy and hot in operation when they kick in to cool the water.
After 4 hours of pumping water was COOL all the way at 22*C stable.
they will stop when water is at 22*C. and kick in again when temp rises abit.
is this normal for a chiller? and somehow it cools the water but heats up my room..?

After all the dust settles, i proceed to feed my P.chineses

A few questions,

1) how many earthworms your P.chineses take per feeding?
my P.chineses take only 2 3inch earthworms atmost.
sometimes only 1. is this normal? or they should take more than that?

2) is it a good idea to alternate between earthworms and bloodworms?

3) i feel that my P.chineses do not like too much airpump. they seems restless when i turned on full.
should i keep it lower? but if reduced my sponge filter rate.
what should i do with this issue?

please advice.

thanks



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Old 1st September 2009   #13
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Default Re: AW: P. chinensis caresheet?

"
1) how many earthworms your P.chineses take per feeding?
my P.chineses take only 2 3inch earthworms atmost.
sometimes only 1. is this normal? or they should take more than that?
"

Give them as many as they want - if they're not skinny or too slim, you feed them good.

"
2) is it a good idea to alternate between earthworms and bloodworms?
"
If you can - add as many alternate foods as you can - scuds, pillbugs, crickets...

"
3) i feel that my P.chineses do not like too much airpump. they seems restless when i turned on full.
should i keep it lower? but if reduced my sponge filter rate.
what should i do with this issue?
"
Too strong water move produced by bubbles have to stress them. You can get bigger sponge filter or add another one and both should work on reduced work rate.



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Old 2nd September 2009   #14
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Default Re: AW: P. chinensis caresheet?

hi

thanks for advice,

i will get another sponge filter and reduce the bubbles produced.

btw can earthworms breath under water?
will they die and pollute the water if left over night?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahilles View Post
"
1) how many earthworms your P.chineses take per feeding?
my P.chineses take only 2 3inch earthworms atmost.
sometimes only 1. is this normal? or they should take more than that?
"

Give them as many as they want - if they're not skinny or too slim, you feed them good.

"
2) is it a good idea to alternate between earthworms and bloodworms?
"
If you can - add as many alternate foods as you can - scuds, pillbugs, crickets...

"
3) i feel that my P.chineses do not like too much airpump. they seems restless when i turned on full.
should i keep it lower? but if reduced my sponge filter rate.
what should i do with this issue?
"
Too strong water move produced by bubbles have to stress them. You can get bigger sponge filter or add another one and both should work on reduced work rate.



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Old 2nd September 2009   #15
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Default Re: AW: P. chinensis caresheet?

It is normal that a chiller will heat up your room. In essence, it is moving heat FROM the tank water TO the room air. Be sure that you have an "emergency plan" for what you will do if the chiller breaks (for example, using frozen bottles of water, or moving the newts into a refrigerator).

Some worms will live underwater for a couple of days (Eisenia compost worms can), but other varieties will die quickly in water. So it depends on what kind of worms you have. Are the worms red-brown, or gray in color?



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Old 2nd September 2009   #16
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Default Re: AW: P. chinensis caresheet?

Hi Jennewt,

my earthworms are pinkish ard 2inch, red ones ard 3inch+
thanks for advice.

i started to frozen 4*1.5L coca cola bottles today, incase...
btw, ain't the fridge too cool for newts? and is there oxygen in fridge?

thank you


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennewt View Post
It is normal that a chiller will heat up your room. In essence, it is moving heat FROM the tank water TO the room air. Be sure that you have an "emergency plan" for what you will do if the chiller breaks (for example, using frozen bottles of water, or moving the newts into a refrigerator).

Some worms will live underwater for a couple of days (Eisenia compost worms can), but other varieties will die quickly in water. So it depends on what kind of worms you have. Are the worms red-brown, or gray in color?



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Old 2nd September 2009   #17
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Default Re: AW: P. chinensis caresheet?

I would say that you shouldn't leave worms in tank for night - when i feed newts with earthworms, i feed them from tweezers or leave them near newts so i see when they eat it and if newt is "full" - worms can be left in my tanks only if newt catches it, escapes and, hidden in plants, spit it out, for example.



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Old 3rd September 2009   #18
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Default Re: AW: P. chinensis caresheet?

Hi folks,

after reading the article on worms on this site.
i think my earthworms are red wrigglers.

i want to make them more nutrious by feeding the worms with vegetables and calcium/vitamins powder.
but i am afriad i get the wrong type of vitamins and poison my P.chineses.

what type of calcium/vitamins powder should i get for this?
those for pet dogs? specifically what type of vitamins are good for newts?

thanks



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Old 4th September 2009   #19
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Default Re: AW: P. chinensis caresheet?

hi folks,

today while feeding, my male newt got too close to 1 of my females and bite her head for 1-2secs!
the female newt quicklyswam away and luckily it continue to feed on worms and remains actively foraging.

i am worried the female was injuried by the attack.

Is such attacks fatal?

normally my newts ignore each other and they already established their own teritory.
the 2 female newts hides in a thick plant bush on the right front.

while the male newt hangs around under the sponge filter on the left back.

thanks alot



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Old 4th September 2009   #20
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Default Re: AW: P. chinensis caresheet?

hi folks,

good news, finally we have a Paramesotriton caresheet by paul!!!

http://www.ag-urodela.de/daten_arten...ensis-text.htm




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