Are native caudates legally the same as Cynops in Washington state?

As we all know Washington's blanket ban on all caudates except cynops allows some natives to be kept under a fishing license, but after reading the DNR website I'm still confused about the legality of field collected sals.

D. tenebrosus is legal to keep, but what about breeding and trading.

The only part of the laws I can find are about collection practices, numbers, and taking them out of state.

But what about captive bred subjects? If there not from the wild then can be sold like cynops?

I've got a very active stream in my yard with dicamptodons and I have enough space to set up large trout tub right next to the stream, so lighting temperature and water conditions should be identical to where they breed naturally. I can also ethically procure identical soil, rocks and wood from my own property and local quarry.

If I can breed em legally anyone in state is welcome to have some or trade for another legal caudate. But until someone can clarify the legal status of captive bred animals I'm hesitant to start.

Newts and salamanders that are legal in Washington state and are easy to find CB are: Cynops, Tylototriton, Salamandra, Hypselotriton. That's it. There are a lot of less common species that are legal, though. Native Dicamptodon species are legal to keep, but cannot be legally taken unless you have a Scientific Collection Permit ( SCP ). These permits are only issued to Scientists, Aquariums ( like Seattle Aquarium, not hobbyist aquarium ) Educational purposes, etc., and are not issued to the general public. None the less, you can still legally keep them, you just cannot collect them from this state. This is the same way with native Taricha, Ambystoma, Ensatina, Rhyacotriton.
I do not think you need a fishing license to keep native species?

The only part of the laws I can find are about collection practices, numbers, and taking them out of state.

Click to expand...

If you can link me to any one of these I would very much appreciate it. Especially the last one. I have not been successful in finding any of these, so any extra info I can get would be awesome!

Here are two links. The first is a discussion about Washington laws on this site, make sure you read the whole thing! The initially response given is false, FrogEyes gives the true law info.
The second is to the online version of the actual law, it states all banned amphibians and more. However, to fully understand some things ( like name changes ) you will need to read the first link. -Seth
WAC 220-12-090: Classification
http://www.caudata.org/forum/f1173-...s/61708-what-legal-keep-washington-state.html

sde said:

Newts and salamanders that are legal in Washington state and are easy to find CB are: Cynops, Tylototriton, Salamandra, Hypselotriton. That's it. There are a lot of less common species that are legal, though. Native Dicamptodon species are legal to keep, but cannot be legally taken unless you have a Scientific Collection Permit ( SCP ). These permits are only issued to Scientists, Aquariums ( like Seattle Aquarium, not hobbyist aquarium ) Educational purposes, etc., and are not issued to the general public. None the less, you can still legally keep them, you just cannot collect them from this state. This is the same way with native Taricha, Ambystoma, Ensatina, Rhyacotriton.
I do not think you need a fishing license to keep native species?


If you can link me to any one of these I would very much appreciate it. Especially the last one. I have not been successful in finding any of these, so any extra info I can get would be awesome!

Here are two links. The first is a discussion about Washington laws on this site, make sure you read the whole thing! The initially response given is false, FrogEyes gives the true law info.
The second is to the online version of the actual law, it states all banned amphibians and more. However, to fully understand some things ( like name changes ) you will need to read the first link. -Seth
WAC 220-12-090: Classification
http://www.caudata.org/forum/f1173-...s/61708-what-legal-keep-washington-state.html

Click to expand...

Having consulted with several web sites and DNR papers, I think I might actually be able to do this legally!

I had previously thought that this was a specifically herp/pet trade law prohibiting trade in small animals.

But as it turns out it's actually a kind of discretionary law enforcement rule that is open to interpretation by those who enforce it.

Basically it says that all wild animal life in Washington state is property of the state, and that disturbing it is against the law, no matter what kind of animal it is, if those responsible for enforcement say so.

That means (and I'm not exaggerating here) that collecting earth worms in your yard is in violation of the law, as is swatting a fly, moving a snake from your driveway to your yard, or shooing away a squirrel from your bird feeder. Actually, as someone from an entomologist site pointed out, washing you teeth with mouthwash is too, since your killing bacteria (native invertebrates).

So basically if they decide to cite you, they can for pretty much anything. If they arbitrarily decide not to then it's legal.

If I decide to do this then I'm basically just moving them to one part of my property (stream), to another (stream fed outdoor pool), then back again.

If the DNR doesn't feel that that's an act threatening a non trivial animal, then it's just as legal as picking up a newt (or worm) and putting it in an aquarium for a while, then putting it back.

If people can collect crayfish and newts to sell out of state, then temporarily moving a non endangered salamander (in a way that avoids any possibility of it being exposed pathogens or environmental toxins any different from what can be found within 20 feet of the stream they live in) should be alright.

It all really depends on if they decide to enforce it, but if they don't then it's basically the legal equivalent of putting worms in a bucket with soil for all intents and purposes.