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Fire Salamanders (Salamandra) The first salamanders described, this diverse genus of species and subspecies can be found throughout Europe and the Near-East. They are the animals that first come to mind when most people hear the word "salamander".

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Old 10th February 2015   #1
MasSalvaje
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Default Breeding Ethics?

I have a group of 6 adult salamandra salamandra. I acquired them as sub/adults 3 years ago from a student of mine that was struggling with their care. I don't know the background as to where they came from or whether they were CB or WC. Would the best option be to separate them and not breed them because I don't know their history or is it acceptable to breed them?

This question might be a moot point as I have noticed that one or two of the females are becoming a bit more round over the winter, but I am still interested in thoughts for future plans. If they turn out to produce babies would there be ethical concern about them mudding the water because of their unknown past? How would I best label them?

-Thomas



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Old 10th February 2015   #2
Rodrigo
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Default Re: Breeding Ethics?

I think that just the fact that you are considering this gives you credit.
If you upload pictures we might be able to provide an educated guess as to which subspecies they are. Mind you, it's likely that they are S.s.salamandra and that they are WC imports, as these are relatively common in the american market while all other subespecies as well as CB animals seem to be really quite rare.
Personally, my advice would be to go ahead and breed them if you like, but make sure to provide the information that you just provided here to any potential future owner of the resulting offspring. I don't see much of a problem with breeding them even if they are of unknown origin, given that this is the US market. If it were europe, i would strongly encourage you not to, but in your market i think there is more good to be gained from breeding them than not. The one caveat is what i already mentioned, be very open and forthright about their status as animals of unknown origin and advice any future owners to follow your example. There is some danger of contaminating other bloodlines, because there will always be people who just don't care, but there are steps that can be taken to maintain their bloodline isolated, such as what has already been mentioned, as well as taking care who you sell to, etc...



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Old 11th February 2015   #3
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Default Re: Breeding Ethics?

Thank you for the reply. I will see if I can get some pics of the six and see if I can figure out how to post pics on here.

Are there many people in the U.S. that breed S. salamandra? I have heard rumors that some measures are being proposed to stop the importation of all caudates or at least require all imports be tested for Batrachochytrium salamandrivorans. I would think this would start to encourage more captive breeding groups out there.

Thanks again,

-Thomas



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Old 12th February 2015   #4
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Default Re: Breeding Ethics?

Thomas, a lot of the salamanders I see for sale are WC. The law probably won't do what you want for salamander sales and I'll tell you why. If they are added to the lacey act, you will not be able to move them from one state to the next. Therefore, in many states there would be zero legal fire salamanders available, in some states with multiple breeders, there might be more than could be sold. Overall, I think it would be pretty bad for the future of fire salamanders in captivity in the US. If they somehow just stopped importation but not interstate movement, that would be a boom for CB US sales, Good luck with your animals!



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Old 12th February 2015   #5
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Default Re: Breeding Ethics?

Here are shots I could get of 4 of the 6, the other two didn't want to be disturbed but look very similar to the 2 in the 1st picture.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

-Thomas



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Old 12th February 2015   #6
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Default Re: Breeding Ethics?

They look to be Salamandra Salamandra Salamandra.

Stuart



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Old 13th February 2015   #7
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Default Re: Breeding Ethics?

Yeah, they definitely fit with S.s.salamandra. Not surprising as they are the most common given that they are the only supossedly legal imports of this species.
I'm not very familiar with the US S.salamandra market, but it seems that aside from the WC imports of this subspecies, there's not a lot more going on. There used to be imports of other subspecies, all illegal, of course, but i haven't heard of any for quite some time, and you rarely hear of any breedings. If they are happening, they are not very visible.



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