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Mole Salamanders but not tigers or axolotls (Ambystomatids) These large-mouthed, burrowing salamanders are indigenous to Central and North America.

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Old 14th July 2003   #1
isaiah
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These were collected legally. They are not mine, but I was able to shoot these pics for all to enjoy.
Click the image to open in full size.



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Old 14th July 2003   #2
isaiah
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And the mugshotClick the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.



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Old 15th July 2003   #3
john
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Splendid. Can you find some Cingulatum for a firnd of mine who is interested for this species?

John



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Old 15th July 2003   #4
nate
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John, A. cingulatum is now a Federally Threatened species and so it is impossible to acquire legally anymore. The above animals are mine and have been grandfathered.



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Old 15th July 2003   #5
travis
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Great pictures of a beautiful species.
Although it is impossible to aquire them legally now,there are a few loopholes....like hillbilly bait shops. A friend of mine goes by a local baitshop and everyonce in awhile he rescues any A.cingulatum they have and he releases them.
Nate,
What does Grandfathered mean? I noticed that their tank was very wet,are they always kept this moist? Thanks,
Travis



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Old 15th July 2003   #6
john
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I believe Nate means that they were acquired before they were classed as Federally Threatened, and Nate has been allowed to keep them. Please correct me if I'm wrong.



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Old 15th July 2003   #7
nate
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Travis, there are no loopholes. Even in the very remote possibility they should show up in a baitshop (the larvae are quite small and worthless as bait) that would not be a legal way to acquire them. There is no way you can legally own one as of April, 1998....unless you owned them (and can prove this) prior to that date. This is called "grandfathering". Ignorance of the law is not considered a defense as far as the Endangered Species Act is concerned.

I suspect your friend is not IDing them correctly. the larvae of A. talpoideum look similar and are bigger, particularly neotenic adults.

The tank looks very wet because I had just misted it.



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Old 16th July 2003   #8
travis
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Well then, I guess there aren't any loopholes.Forget my last post.
Nate,
Thanks for explaining to me what "grandfathering" means,I had never heard of that before.
These aren't larvae...they are adults. I will ask him to snap a few pictures next time he see's them at the bait shop.They are there occasionally he tells me.



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Old 1st December 2003   #9
russ
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Nate

Have you tried breeding them?

RUSS



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Old 1st December 2003   #10
nate
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Unfortunately, I only had females.



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Old 1st December 2003   #11
jesper
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Well, apply for a male then! I'm sure "they" will grant you one to ensure the survival of this speciesClick the image to open in full size.

Anyway Nate, what do you mean with had? Where these newts too terrestrial?Click the image to open in full size.



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Old 1st December 2003   #12
nate
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Hi Jesper, I certainly would not be permitted to collect a male. U.S. Fish & Wildlife is not interested in having threatened and endangered salamanders bred in captivity by private individuals and they make regulations very stringent to discourage the possibility.




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Old 2nd December 2003   #13
elisabeth
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Nate, doesn't that just plain suck??!!Click the image to open in full size.



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Old 18th December 2003   #14
jesper
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Any particular reasons for this policy?

Can't you use your scientific interest(as you are working with them...) of salamanders as a reason?



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Old 18th December 2003   #15
nate
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Yes. Having both legal and illegal animals available for the public only confuses the issue for USFW policy. It becomes very difficult to trace the source of animals. Afterall, I could say mine bred, and then go and collect about 30 more animals and say they are the offspring. Likewise, someone else could go collect a bunch of animals and say they are captive bred from me or someone else.

Finally, there's the issue of public support. A. cingulatum, for example, is found extensively on pine plantation land and it directly affects that industry. It's very hard to convinve people they need to be protected in the wild if there's a thriving captive bred population.

Why shut down my business over a salamander when I can go on the internet and buy one for 5$? It's not like they're going extinct, right?



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Old 30th March 2018   #16
amphibianfound
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Default Re: Ambystoma cingulatum

HI Nate Just getting caught up on this post from a decade and a half ago. Any chance that any of these cingulatum are still kickin? If so, I would love to hear about how they are doing, and how you have kept them happy.

Right now, the Amphibian Foundation holds the only federal permit to posses A. cingulatum in captivity, and we have about 70 adults, and hundreds of larvae (hatched from eggs earlier this year). Trying to gain any information I can.

Thanks! Amazing species

Mark



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