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Newt and Salamander Help Got a problem? Ill newt? Basic questions? Ask about them here.

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Old 20th March 2004   #1
elizabeth
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<font color="ff6000">Just after I got this salamander, it came down with a bloated chin area. It looks inflated like a balloon under the chin and cheek area. Other then that it seems fine. The blue chip was from a gravel tank I had just cleaned and it was on the table i photographed on.</font>

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Old 20th March 2004   #2
Mike East
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Hi Beth,
I suspect liver damage, or possibly another vital organ. I've seen this before in Salamandra that were kept too dry for long periods...unfortunately they didn't survive.



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Old 21st March 2004   #3
edward
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Hi Mike, Beth,
Heart, kidney and/or liver damage usually manifests as bloating of the torso which can then spread into the other regions of the body.
This sort of swelling is more likely to be the result of a localized problem which can be caused by a couple of other issues such as a bacterial infection, a wound or injury, parasites or something else interfering with the lymphatic system.
I would strongly recommend getting the salamander checked out by a vet as if this is an infection the sooner it gets diagnosed the less likely it will kill the animal.
Ed



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Old 21st March 2004   #4
matthew
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I saw something similar in an adult newt once. The cause was an infection in the roof of the animal's mouth. A large, lodged food particle was carefully removed and the animal was successfully treated with an antibiotic (Baytril). I suspect an early catch was crucial.



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Old 21st March 2004   #5
elizabeth
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<font color="ff6000">Can I buy antibiotics online that will work without a high vet bill? Fish meds? How about a nice article online about medicine types, dosages used for different infections for reference in the future? Bacterial..., would minocycline work? I have 100mg capsules i could break down.</font>



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Old 21st March 2004   #6
matthew
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If you can find and afford a herp-savvy vet (and I can't believe a quick consultation and prescription will cost that much!), then I'd say do get-to-the-vet.
If antibiotics are needed, but the wrong type or dose is used, a lot of damage can be done.
Good luck.



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Old 21st March 2004   #7
chris
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If its bacterial, Baytril is the chemical for you. You have to have it prescribed though.



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Old 21st March 2004   #8
matthew
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Yup... and before it is given, in the right dilution, at the right frequency, in the right way... an expert eye looking inside its mouth would be very helpful.
Don't wait too long though!



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Old 21st March 2004   #9
jesper
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Hey Ed,
Damage on any organ with major flowthrough of blood will result in oedema. I've seen some nasty pics of how general oedema tends to look in humans, all the soft tissues can double many times is size. Ed, can you tell me which areas are affected in newts? You said torso? I thought the stomack area would be affected first, wouldn't the rib cage hinder an oedema of the torso?

Also, do you know of any vets using diuretics on bloated newts whilst treating underlying damages/disorders?



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Old 21st March 2004   #10
jennifer
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Beth - antibiotics for fish are unlikely to work, both because the sal will not absorb them well enough through its skin and because they are often ineffective anyway.

I agree with your suggestion for a "treatment" article. The problem is that there is a huge gulf between the medically-correct information, and anything that is available without a vet. The veterinary information would be of little use to you as the treatments would require a vet's help anyway. I have given some thought to assembling a list of "anecdotes", specific case histories where over-the-counter remedies have either worked or not worked, but I'm not sure how useful that would be either.



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Old 21st March 2004   #11
edward
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Hi Jesper,
To me (which may just be a personal preference) I consider anything between the head and tail to be the torso on a salamander or newt.
Yes localized damage to the lymphatic system will result in the localized edema (which is why I listed all of those other possible causes) however damage to the heart, liver and/or kidneys should present initially as swelling of the entire rib and abdominal section (torso) of the salamander/newt through retained fluid a condition known technically as ascites (but these are not the only things that can cause this sort of fluid retention). I believe that it usually more apparent in the abdominal region first because there are no structures like ribs to prevent the initial deformation but the "chest" area will look just as turgid as the abdominal region on close inspection. As more fluid is retained the the swelling progresses to other regions of the body.
I have not read or heard of any vets using a diuretic on an amphibians in general. However soaking a bloated amphibian in hypertonic amphibian ringers as outlined in Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry will bring down the swelling as long as the underlying cause (such as a bacterial infection) is treated or properly managed.

Ed



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Old 21st March 2004   #12
jesper
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Hi Ed,
Thanks.
I have decided to buy the book!
Any tips on where I get get it cheaply? It's 150 dollars at amazonClick the image to open in full size.



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Old 21st March 2004   #13
edward
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Hi Jesper,
I would recommend buying it direct from Kreiger Press (Krieger Publishing Co.
PO Box 9542
Melbourne, Florida 32902-9542, USA
Tel:+ 1 321 724-9542
Fax: +1 321 951-3671
E-Mail info@krieger-publishing.com
Website: www.krieger-publishing.com)
Although their website seems to be down at the moment.
I think they charge around $130 plus shipping US for it.
Ed



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Old 27th March 2004   #14
matthew
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(Irrespective of whether or I not was able to twist your arm to see a vet) may I simply enquire how the patient is doing now, Elizabeth?

Best//M



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Old 23rd April 2004   #15
raychel
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<font color="aa00aa"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>
I too have a bloating salamander. I noticed that he looked larger than normal about four days ago. Then, this morning, not only did his torso look bloated but his entire face. Originally, I'd thought I'd overfed him, or something. But now I'm sure it's something more serious. After reading these posts, I decided I should bring my newt to a vet. There is only one in my area (Iowa City) that will see newts. And it's going to cost $30! That's a lot of money for me, a poor college student. Especially considering the newt cost only $7. I've had him for 2 years, so I'm kind of attached to him. It's really hard to see him so bloated, but I feel like maybe I should just let him die and buy a new newt. Any helpful suggestions? Is the vet bill worth it?</font>}

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