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Old 22nd September 2004   #1
amy
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Hi All. I just joined. I have a gorgeous black axy, Sam. I wanted some information on what to feed him (or her, i've never actually checked.) I've had him for a few months, but have also kept 2 other axy's before. I've been feeding Sam on Axy pellets and frozen beef heart as a treat. Today i was gardening and thought i'd dig up a couple of worms for him. I fed him 2 and he seemed to enjoy them. Are they safe to give him regularly? What are some other live foods that are suitable to feed my axy? Thanks.



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Old 22nd September 2004   #2
mik
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Hi Amy, welcome to the group.

There's always a current thread running on feeding (it would seem) but the golden rule is variety, everything in moderation. But axies love earthworms and they are great for tempting one that has lost it's appetite.

Check out the main site, there stacks of excellent information and FAQS: http://axolotl.caudata.org/

Finally, typical foods are earthworms, pellets, tubeworms, bloodworms, daphnia, brine shrimp, feeder guppies, heart , liver (beef or lamb), fuzzies or pinkies.

Earthworms & pellets you can get from any angling shop.
Bloodworms, tubeworms, daphnia, brine shrimp can be bought live or frozen.
feeder fish you'll probably have to trawl shops for a supplier.
Pinkies, fuzzies, heart and liver are all mammalian proteins and axies can't digest too well so best for occasional treats.

Everyone else can quote disadvantages with various foods. Just remember the golden rule.

Anyone tried chicken kiev with their axies yet? ... Only kidding.



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Old 22nd September 2004   #3
katy
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oh god don't feed them baby mice! *cries* i have a litter of babies at the moment and couldn't bare the thought od someone feeding them to axolotls. snakes need them, it's a necessary evil. but not axolotls.



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Old 22nd September 2004   #4
mik
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LOL Katy... you buy them frozen. They are already dead. Simply let them thaw and dangle in front. You know the rest.

Fuzzies provide a good source of calcium, if fed once or twice in a year. The disadvantages being cost and the mammal protein thing...everything in moderation, remember.

I have to disagree with you Katy it's not evil it's life. Animals eat other animals their entire body chemistry, physiology is based on acquiring food, digesting it so they can survive and reproduce. If you're going to keep animals you have to be prepared to feed them what they really need. You don''t have qualms about them eating daphnia or brine shrimp so why is anything else any different?

I am collecting my new puppy next week. It will be fed meat as the main constituent of it's diet. It might not seem right to you but I don't give much thought to the animals that end up in the tin, it's just part of owning a dog. In the past I used to collect my dog meat from the local abatoir, sheeps bellies, beef livers etc. I often saw the animals being 'processed'. Feel a little sorry for them while I am there but that's about it.

Hope I haven't upset any veggies with ideals. But that's the simplistic way I view it.

If any one wants to discuss in more detail please start a new thread and I'll move this and Katys post into it. Could be a lively debate :-)



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Old 22nd September 2004   #5
clarence
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I've mentioned this before (ok, a long while ago), but I am fond of mixing pellets, bloodworms, calcium powder, daphnia, brineshrimp, and earthworms, putting the slurry in an icetray made for a miniature icecubes, and freezing the lot into easy, bitesized morsels.

I also like (because my axos seem to like it) HIkari's "Mega Tropical," which you can find in your fishstore's freezer department, and is intended for cichlids and the like. It has a lot of the same goodies in it, minus the earthworms, and with krill.



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Old 22nd September 2004   #6
carl
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how the heck can a axies eat mice



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Old 22nd September 2004   #7
benjamin
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Pinkies are just baby mice (with out even hair) and are only about 1 inch in length, I've heard of both tiger and fire salamanders occasionally eating them in the wild.



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Old 23rd September 2004   #8
katy
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axolotls arent designed to eat pinkies. i quite enjoy feeding my axies live food - fish or worms. i'm sure pinkies are fed to snakes and other animals that naturally eat them, too, and again that's fine because it's necessary.

i'm not vegetarian, and also feed my cats meat. that's not the point i'm trying to make. if you need to feed an animal meat or pinkies or whatever for it to survive, cool, no problem. this is unnecessary.

it's like the difference between killing an animal for its skin to keep your warm and alive, and killing it for its skin to make you fashionable. well, kinda.



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Old 23rd September 2004   #9
clarence
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My objection would be more that this is not a food source they would be apt to be eating in their natural habitat.



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Old 23rd September 2004   #10
edward
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snip "Pinkies, fuzzies, heart and liver are all mammalian proteins and axies can't digest too well so best for occasional treats."

Mike, I am very interested in seeing any supporting references for this as I have been unable to locate any. This is a very common statement often applied to many different species (including garter snakes, hognose snake, and various anurans). I have never seen any supporting evidence for this but it is an oft repeated rule.
I don't have the information at my finger tips at the moment but when compared on kcal basis with adjustments made for indigestiable matter some sizes of rodents are comparable to crickets with regards to fat content for one example.



snip "axolotls arent designed to eat pinkies"

While pinks are high in fat and (depending on the diet of the mother) may contain an excess of vitamin A (placing the axolotl at risk of calcium metabolism problems if fed too often) I would disagree with the statement that axolotls are not designed to eat pinks. Axolotls like many other caudates are generalists and feed on anything that can be captured, restrained and swallowed regargless if it is a commonly available food item or one that is never available.
The item obviously triggers a feeding response via scent so there is some form of programining that recognizes these protiens as a food source.

Clarence not to be rude but this could then be applied to the pelleted diets, your home made food source (to take it to an extreme) the species of worm people feed (which originated in Europe) or any number of other food items (such as brine shrimp).

Some thoughts,

Ed



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Old 23rd September 2004   #11
clarence
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No, you're point is completely valid, and I realized the logical fallacy of my remark a little later at feeding time.

However, I tend to see the natural world in a kinda Gary Larson-ish way, and just can't picture a bunch of pinkies trying to swim the hundred-meter dash through axolotl-infested waters :P



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Old 23rd September 2004   #12
kaysie
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Dont see brine shrimp in freshwater lakes either ;)



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Old 23rd September 2004   #13
edward
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I think that could be a very funny Gary Larson style cartoon (maybe with the ending caption of something like , I only have to outswim you.....)

Ed



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Old 24th September 2004   #14
kaysie
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Gary Larson is a genius (I've recently started expanding my collection)



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Old 24th September 2004   #15
mik
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Axies are opportunistic feeders. Generally if it will fit in their mouths they'll eat it.

Now while mice might not be renowned for swimming across lake xomalco (I know i can't spell it)I would expect all sorts of detritus gets washed into as it is fed from streams. Not all that detritus might be 'typical' axie food but I would also expect there are a good few things they will be more than happy to sample.

Ed,
I can't recall the source right now but it will be something basic like Scott or Malacinkis books or even a FAQs. I'll try and dig it out over the weekend. My own experience indicates that I only ever see a bolus whenever I have been feeding heart or liver. Suggesting asome sort of incompatibility. I don't think I over feed them because I typically trim down to 1mm strip by 25-30mm and feed no more than 2 each. Much smaller than a pinkie size for size and none of mine have vomited a pinkie.

I am an engineer not a biologist (or related occupation) as a good number of the voices in here are, so I am more than to stand happy when corrected. But it seems more than likely to me (a good generalism if you like) and is often quoted, as you say.

I'm always very careful to quote moderation and variety. Burgers might fill us up but I think everyone is convinced that nutritional value is less then dietitions would consider ideal.

So my own philosphy is feed 'em whatever they'll eat but maintain variety and moderation. for example, it isn't neccessary to eat a designated amount of each mineral or vitamin everyday. the body has some tolerence and in built stores. But if you restrict a diet to one food type you certainly won't acquire the correct quantities over a period of time and nutritional problems will certainly result.

On a more practical note I like to feed food that is easy to keep, doesn't go off quickly, preferrably in one piece so I know exactly how much has been eaten & by which axie and doesn't sit on the tank floor spoiling. Pellets fulfill most of these requirements but you just know that one will be missed and is hidden amongst weeds and gravel until you finally spot a furry lump.

LOL Glen Larson is amazing. The buffolo and lions cartoons really get me laffing out loud.(Buffalo=mcdonalds of the serengeti kind of stuff). Great!



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Old 24th September 2004   #16
amy
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I personally wouldn't feed my axy baby mice, i don't think i have the guts to do it, but if other people want to feed them to their axy's, then that's up to them, i'm not against it.
Sam has really taken to the worms, he absolutely loves them, but it looks like i wont be able to get any more from my garden, my Mum put down weed matting and a new layer of soil today.
I was thinking of getting crickets from the pet store to feed him, are they a suitable food source for axy's?



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Old 24th September 2004   #17
edward
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Hi Mike,
Just a thought to throw out there on the topic of red meat.
Most of the items that are fed to axolotls as red meat are pieces of organ meat and contain little to no fiber. The reason you see a bolus when you feed these food items may be due to the lack of indigestiable (or relatively indigestiable items like chitin or plant matter ingested at the same time) items like hair and not due to problems based on red meat.
I've been collecting nutrition references for items fed to amphibians for a number of years now and haven't seen any data on the red meat issue and have begun to wonder if this has become an entrenched belief.

They will eat crickets but you would be better off buying worms or using pellets.


Ed



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Old 24th September 2004   #18
mik
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Ed,

Found it. It comes from Peter Scotts book in the section on feeding. If you have the small hardback book, it's on page 50.

If not email me and I'll scan page and reply.



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Old 27th October 2004   #19
donna
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If anyone knows what type of live fish to feed axie's that would be good. It's not goldfish is it? They seem like they would be too big.



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Old 27th October 2004   #20
cynthia
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<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Donna Belinda Maslen (Donnacrush) wrote on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 03:47 :</font>

&quot;If anyone knows what type of live fish to feed axie's that would be good. It's not goldfish is it? They seem like they would be too big&quot;<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Hi Donna... I wouldn't recommend feeding any type of feeder fish purchased from a pet store. These fish can carry any number of diseases and parasites.

The only way I would feed axolotls fish is to home raise "healthy" guppies/mollies/swords/platies/your favorite live bearer here, at home and feed the axolotls the fry (at what ever stage of growth is desired).

Not all axolotls are good at catching fish. Fish left in the tank with the axolotls too long could nibble the axolotls gills causing panic and stress.

I think fish should be fed as an occasional treat or change, but not as a main source of food.



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