Short gills and long gills??

teesha · Feb 24, 2006

i have noticed looking around that some axys have longer gills than others. Some can be extremes.....like really really long or really really short!! I was just facinated at my find! Do you reckon it's because of genetics or their environment, that they adapt to poor oxygen levels in the water by making their gills more fluffy and longer? Of that this occurs during the early part of it's life and only changes slightly as it ages?? I was just wondering.....i like the ones with longer gills, they're face looks smaller and cuter, and plus, its pretty!!!

alex · Feb 24, 2006

i think its part genes and part environment. less oxygen in the water means bigger gills to absorb more oxygen. and if the water is well oxygenated then the gills can just be small because they dont need to be big. i think its partly genes to.

joan · Feb 24, 2006

Axolotls usually don't grow bigger gills if placed in a lower-oxygen environment. They seem limited at how big (long and fluffy) their gills can grow by genetics. Instead, they'll just gulp air more.

theresa · Feb 24, 2006

the axies i bought were about 6-8 months old and have really really short gills. i mean reeeeaaaly short!

alex · Feb 24, 2006

o i always thought it was to do with partly oxygen and partly genes.

teesha · Feb 25, 2006

i did read somewhere that someone said their gills get fluffyier in lower oxygen environments...weird

sharn · Feb 25, 2006

mine look fluffier when its warmer for some reason (sharn doesnt know much about genetics/axies gills growing). one of my males had gills so long they folded over and touched his head and they shrunk to normal size, none of mine have ever grown longer though

edward · Feb 25, 2006

Warmer water can carry less oxygen...

Yes the temperature and amount of oxygen available can influence how the gills are structured as the "fluffier" the gill, the more surface area to absorb oxygen...

Ed

teesha · Feb 26, 2006

wow cool, i def wont starve my axies of water to make their gills fluffier, but i think the longer the cuter!

just my oppinion!!
Do any of u guys wanna post a pic of ur axies with long or short gills...the extremes....or the same axy with diff gill lenghts? Its interesting to look at i reckon!

theresa · Feb 26, 2006

I'll see if I can figure out how to post a pic.

charlie · Feb 28, 2006

One of mine has very short gills (muff) the other (snork) has luxuriant fluffy feather boas! they live in the same tank and so experience/endure! the same conditions.

They grey up separately (muff i've kinda inherited from my 0/H) so either it's genetic or something to do with their early lives as they've spent the last 2 years together without any gill changes

theresa · Feb 28, 2006

Thanks for that interesting observation Charlie.

teesha · Mar 6, 2006

Wow thanx charlie, it must be that it is with genes, and maybe some can change slightly due to the environment??? But i think its so cool to get another variation that i've noticed...colour and gill length!

skylar · Mar 6, 2006

My axies in the same tank have very different gill lengths, so its very much genetics and a bit oxygen i think. one of mine has really nice long gills that didnt go away even in the winter, whereas my biggest axie has small gills even in summer

teesha · Mar 20, 2006

thats fasinating i recon!

blueberlin · Sep 19, 2008

Hello all,

I've dredged this thread back up to show that I searched before posting.

I can't seem to find a definitive answer and was hoping that with all of the edjumacated people here, someone may have actually read a textbook or lab results with conclusive comments.

Obviously genetics will dictate the length of an axolotl's gills, but is there a correlation between the gills' length and the oxygen available in the water, or water quality? As to the following quote:

joan said:
Axolotls usually don't grow bigger gills if placed in a lower-oxygen environment. They seem limited at how big (long and fluffy) their gills can grow by genetics. Instead, they'll just gulp air more.

This is exactly what is happening to a friend of mine: her axolotl's gills are shortening, and she wants to know why. The gills still look healthy, but are noticeably decreasing in length.

I suggested oxygen as the reason and was rebutted that this is an old wives' tale. Does anyone know for sure one way or the other?

Thanks,

-Eva

philbaker76 · Sep 19, 2008

I think it's a bit of both; I have Axies with longer gills in the same tank as shorter gilled Axolotls.

Also, hatchlings I've raised from my Axolotls have had different sized gills from the spawn I've had from other people (all raised the same way).

And, I have witnessed gills reduce slightly when more oxygen has added to their habitat.

blueberlin · Sep 19, 2008

Hi Phil!

So genetics determining a basic size, which can vary according to the water. More questions:

Assuming the above is true, is it true that higher oxygen levels will decrease the length of the gills?

Does the length of the gills themselves - the branches - change or just the feathers?

I believe that poor water quality can also cause gills to shrink (please confirm); if so, will the gills then look unhealthy/diseased or simply shorter?

Axolotls are one of the animals most studied in laboratories. Are scientists all just fascinated by the regenerative powers and less enthusiastic to understand the species itself? Has nobody ever seen anything anywhere about this? (Vee vant dokumentation!)

-Eva

Daniel · Sep 19, 2008

I have a general question to this discussion: How do you elevate the amount of oxygen dissolved in your tanks water? As far as I know, the concentration of oxygen tends towards some kind of equilibrium with the gas concentration in the surrounding air. The only way to get more oxygen dissolved in the water is to cool it down (so it has a higher absorption capacity) or to have a stronger current on the surface, thereby promoting the gas exchange.

Phil - did you measure the oxygen concentration at your observations?

oceanblue · Sep 19, 2008

Eva - what an interesting revived thread. I google (scholar)'d axolotl gill size and drowned in documentation, mostly relating to shrinkage of glls on metamorphosis and hormones which cause it.

These include thyroid hormone (Thyrixine), stress hormones (Corisone) and other hormones (prostaglandins).

There are studies of how the tiger salamander and axolotl larvae redistribute blood from gills to lungs when the water is oxygen poor, but nothing which seems to answer the questions in this thread.

This thread reads like the debate if intellegence is inherited or environmental. I'll do more reading and chuck in a few references in a few days, but for now I think there is a lot more to it than oxygen and I'm convinced gill size is mostly nurture with only a small pinch of genetics despite having two axolotls of (probably) the same sex, near identical size and weight and very different gill size which have been raised together.

Short gills and long gills??

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