Hellbenders

Is there anyway to obtain a hellbender(PAIR) legally in Ohio. My dad had one years ago that he hook while fishing. it was about 20 inches long but it didnt come out of hibernation one year. And I would like to get involved in breeding them in captivity, I have a 6' by 3' by 4' tank in a room in our pole building, its cold enough to house trout in it making it ideal for hellbenders seeing that they live in the same streams in eastern PA. Thanks for any information.

No one should keep cryptobranchids in captivity. Populations are on severe decline in the wild because of the lack of breeding adults. Removing even a few adults could completely devastate a population. You should know that many zoos have attempted to breed these animals with very little luck. You should not attempt to keep them yourself, as I doubt you have the resources to provide them with the proper setup to induce breeding.

Hellbenders are completely protected in OH and not legal to collect or own there. Rest assured, you would never be granted a permit to own nor breed them in OH legally.

I'll have to disagree with Kaysie overall on this one, though. "No one" owning cryptobranchids is a bit too extreme. While populations are declining in several states, in other states such as PA, WV, NC, and GA, populations are quite stable and plentiful. But like Kaysie points out, breeding in captivity has proven very difficult thus far, and so it's a misguided dream of sorts that any private hobbyist is going to realistically "help" the plight of the hellbender by captive breeding.

But even in states where the populations are stable and plentiful this may depend on the water shed. I haven't seen a recent data but last I checked in PA the population in the Susquehanna drainage looked to be declining while other river systems in western PA were doing well.

Ed

Relativity!

If zoos didt manage to breed hellbender, this must not mean it is impossible or that difficult. Many zoos don´t have the time or personnel to work on this objective approrpiately. The Mammoth Cave hatchery has a project running for the subspecies C. a. bishopi but to my latest knowledge without encouriging results.

Looking at the know biology of hellbenders they breed in groups and the dominating male guards the nest. Possibly a pair won´t breed if they don´t harmonize. This is known of many animals, from mammals down to fish. And generally serious attemps have been few to breed hellbenders.

If they continue declining in the wild, successful breeding ma ybe the only gate to go through for them into a positive future. And if I keep in mind how many specimen of hellbenders still are killed by fishermen, SUV´s cruising the riverbeds, siltation by industry and military, collecting (legally!) a small group of hellbenders wouldn´t affect a population that much.

Last to say, juveniles of hellbenders are rarely found, they possibly drift downstream into larger rivers and migrate back when getting mature. Just a theory but why other than that hardly any juvenile hellbenders are found in the headwaters?

Steffen

Newtility said:

Last to say, juveniles of hellbenders are rarely found, they possibly drift downstream into larger rivers and migrate back when getting mature. Just a theory but why other than that hardly any juvenile hellbenders are found in the headwaters?

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There are certainly other obvious theories for why juveniles aren't found: (1) the adult hellbenders in the streams are surviving, but not breeding or laying eggs, or (2) the mortality rate for eggs/juvs is very high these days. I suspect that there is some historical information that might answer whether your theory is possible - were juvenile hellbenders historically found in the same streams with adults, but are now missing? I don't know the answer. Certainly the lack of juveniles is a very bad indicator if they were found in the past, but now are missing.

It's true than "many" zoos don't have the time/personnel to work seriously with hellbenders. But there are a few zoos that are devoting significant resources to the effort:
http://www.stlzoo.org/wildcareinstitute/hellbendersinmissouri/
http://www.columbuszoo.com/news/beastban/bbjuly06/wilds.html

And in reply to the original post by "Spotted", anyone who truly wants to help hellbenders in their area can find practical suggestions here:
http://www.wondersofwildlife.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=40&Itemid=33

Well said Steffen. I agree, and a few people keeping these will not impact populations any more than some knuckhead fisherman killing one. I've found these in the wild, other people I know personally have seen dozens of them, they may be on a decline historically but extintion or anything close to it seems a BIG stretch. In the meantime, if some hobbyist want to try and keep one alive he or she should be allowed to. Perhaps someday a hobbyist will produce the first captive offspring.

Steffen,

There is very real data which indicates hellbenders are declining dramatically and no longer reproducing in many populations where juveniles were once plentiful. Not only are the smallest juveniles missing from the populations, but all intermediate sizes are as well, indicating that reproduction has not occurred for several years.

I think it is a very real possibility, if not a probability, that hellbenders will be extirpated from most of the states where they historically occurred within my lifetime. Luckily, as Nate said, there are a few strongholds which appear to be doing well, so I think global extinction is unlikely unless these habitats are impacted by all the problems which are wiping them out in other states.

-Tim

shotgun said:

Well said Steffen. I agree, and a few people keeping these will not impact populations any more than some knuckhead fisherman killing one. I've found these in the wild, other people I know personally have seen dozens of them, they may be on a decline historically but extintion or anything close to it seems a BIG stretch. In the meantime, if some hobbyist want to try and keep one alive he or she should be allowed to. Perhaps someday a hobbyist will produce the first captive offspring.

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"Seems" is the operative word here. To a person unfamiliar with the details of the plight of hellbenders, going to a stream and finding a dozen of them might seem like everything is ok. But the reality is, in the vast majority of historical hellbender sites, all you find are very old adults. They're not having a population-sustaining level of breeding success any longer and those streams are due for an abrupt crash and probable extirpation when the old animals finally die off. Like Tim mentions, now with zoos and govt. agencies taking so much notice, it's unlikely that hellbenders will actually go extinct, but you may very well need to go to a zoo to see one 20 years from now.

If zoos didt manage to breed hellbender, this must not mean it is impossible or that difficult. Many zoos don´t have the time or personnel to work on this objective approrpiately. The Mammoth Cave hatchery has a project running for the subspecies C. a. bishopi but to my latest knowledge without encouriging results.

Looking at the know biology of hellbenders they breed in groups and the dominating male guards the nest. Possibly a pair won´t breed if they don´t harmonize. This is known of many animals, from mammals down to fish. And generally serious attemps have been few to breed hellbenders.

Last to say, juveniles of hellbenders are rarely found, they possibly drift downstream into larger rivers and migrate back when getting mature. Just a theory but why other than that hardly any juvenile hellbenders are found in the headwaters?

Click to expand...

St Louis zoo has already obtained eggs from their captive bishopi. While I would agree that many zoos do not have the time or personnel to work on many objectives, this is not the case with zoos working with hellbenders.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you've written, but hellbenders do not breed in groups or have communal nests, like Andrias do. Males wait for any gravid female to pass by their egg chamber and agressively "persuade" or "guide" a female in. They've even been known to block a female from leaving a nest chamber until she lays. There's no evidence for pair-bonding or fidelity there.

Juvenile hellbenders are historically poorly documented, true. But they are simply very secretive and stay within gravel banks, etc. and were probably greatly underrepresented in historical studies due to the sampling techniques. But these days, they're hard to find because there's just not very many (if any) there! They are not going downstream to deeper waters. In the remaining healthy hellbender populations, larvae and juveniles can indeed be found alongside adults, but it takes a lot more work and different techniques.