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Large Aquatic Salamanders (Hellbenders/Cryptobranchids, Necturus, Siren, etc.) This topic covers Cryptobranchids like the hellbender and Asian giant salamanders, as well as sirens, mud puppies, and amphiumas.


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Old 28th January 2008   #1
Nathan
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Default Albino Andrias japonicus

I found this really interesting, I have never seen a larval A. japonicus. The fact that it is albino is even more incredible. Check out the link.
http://www.pinktentacle.com/2006/10/...-in-hiroshima/



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Old 29th January 2008   #2
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They look like axolotls. I could find no information on this at any legitimate website. Additionally, Aza zoo has no information on them (although my japanese reading skills are um... bad).



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Old 29th January 2008   #3
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Yeah, I thought that it looked to much like a couple of axolotls to be true. I wasn't sure, but I thought I would post it anyway because it seemed like it could be better investigated. oh well, thanks for checking it out.



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Old 29th January 2008   #4
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those arent japanese salamanders!!!!! those are axolotls!! they dont even resemble O-San-shouhou/giant japanese salamanders. My friend from japan told me alittle about them and showed me pics of them. Those are axolotls in a small tank with blue gravel......



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Old 29th January 2008   #5
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The eyes are way too big, the toes are far too long and pointed, the head isn't rounded enough, and it's clearly in a home aquarium (the gravel is way too small, they probably eat it all the time).

The story sounds pretty wild, and almost believable until you see the pictures. I have a few dozen of those albino salamanders chilling in my basement right now there's even a little pic of one under my name.



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Old 29th January 2008   #6
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Yeah. I figured that it wasn't true, but I thought I would let everyone else decide. Having no idea what a larval A. japonicus looks like, I wasn't sure. The heads looked flat for axolotls, which is also why I wasn't sure (they did seem small though). The fact that the Asa zoo is somewhat known for its salamanders contributed too. It would have been way cool if it had been true though.



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Old 30th January 2008   #7
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They don't look quite like axolotls to me. I'm hoping for an expert opinion.



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Old 30th January 2008   #8
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I think they are are A. japonicus. They don't look like axolotls to me.



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Old 30th January 2008   #9
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They are pretty weird for axolotl. But I wouldn't be to happy about finding large numbers of albinos. This indicates inbreeding, not a good thing in an endangered species.



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Old 30th January 2008   #10
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Originally Posted by grunsven View Post
They are pretty weird for axolotl. But I wouldn't be to happy about finding large numbers of albinos. This indicates inbreeding, not a good thing in an endangered species.
You're probably right but albinos can occur without inbreeding.



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Old 30th January 2008   #11
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"This is due either to environmental changes..."

Oh boy, another carpet-bagger.



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Old 30th January 2008   #12
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Environment has got nothig to do with albinism.

I agree that albinism can occur without inbreeding but is much more likely with inbreeding.



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Old 30th January 2008   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grunsven View Post
Environment has got nothig to do with albinism.

I agree that albinism can occur without inbreeding but is much more likely with inbreeding.
well thats how the alboíno strain of the axolotl's are so wide spread, since they all date from a suceeded breeding in the 50's. if two albinos mate and produce offspring there will be a 100% chance of getting albino offspring. since there is so few of the albinos inbreeding is the only choice in order to keep them alive, but that was a long time ago. now there is no need for inbreeding (at least for axolotls) but with genetic tracing we would find out that they all have the same forefather, namely the one from the suceeded breeding during the 50's :)



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Old 30th January 2008   #14
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Neat, I don't think they look too much like axolotls, unless they're sickly ones. There's a number of reasons they could be albino. My guess is random chance, but for all we know one of their Hiroshima ancestors could have been exposed to an unnatural mutagenic radiation source.... I guess then we get into to tales of the fierce Salamanderzilla. 5/30 were albino, if they were from a single cross, then perhaps a lucky cross of heterozygotes, but then again who's an expert at giant salamander genetics? Maybe they're weird tetraploids like Xenopus.



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Old 30th January 2008   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snussmak View Post
well thats how the alboíno strain of the axolotl's are so wide spread, since they all date from a suceeded breeding in the 50's. if two albinos mate and produce offspring there will be a 100% chance of getting albino offspring. since there is so few of the albinos inbreeding is the only choice in order to keep them alive, but that was a long time ago. now there is no need for inbreeding (at least for axolotls) but with genetic tracing we would find out that they all have the same forefather, namely the one from the suceeded breeding during the 50's :)
It was the late 1960s and it wasn't exactly a successful breeding. With regard to inbreeding due to albinism, I think you'll find there was a lot less inbreeding than you think. Pet owners are "pro" at inbreeding, unfortunately.

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My guess is random chance, but for all we know one of their Hiroshima ancestors could have been exposed to an unnatural mutagenic radiation source....
Right... Or maybe Captain Kirk and the Terminator came back in time and did it.



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Old 31st January 2008   #16
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Gee, first I was embarrassed, now I am confused. So there is a chance that it really is true? I didn't think that they looked like axolotls, but when a guy known for his axolotls tells me that they are, I tend to listen. Also I couldn't find anything about them on Asa Zoo's website. I was really discouraged, but now I am really fascinated!



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Old 31st January 2008   #17
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i think they're poor looking axolotls....living in poor conditions......thats what I think until proven wrong...but it would be cool if those were giant salamanders.........but they resemble poory cared for axolotls I've seen axolotls looking just like that in pet stores



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Old 31st January 2008   #18
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Man I've been punked!

Seriously though, last I checked, axolotls have 5 toes on their rear feet. That alone should be enough to convince you. If you are still in doubt, the head shape is wrong, the eyes are odd and the tails are wrong, not to mention that the two animals are so close in appearance that it's hard to believe two axolotls would be in the exact same state of health at the exact same time - they'd have curled tails, uneven gills, something.

In short, I'm drinking the cool aid.



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Old 31st January 2008   #19
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And how dare you doubt axolotl_jake ! :P



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Old 31st January 2008   #20
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Man I've been punked!

Seriously though, last I checked, axolotls have 5 toes on their rear feet. That alone should be enough to convince you. If you are still in doubt, the head shape is wrong, the eyes are odd and the tails are wrong, not to mention that the two animals are so close in appearance that it's hard to believe two axolotls would be in the exact same state of health at the exact same time - they'd have curled tails, uneven gills, something.

In short, I'm drinking the cool aid.
Ok, I was wrong, but here's my reasoning for thinking the way I did.

The one in the picture on the left looks like it could possibly have five back toes(that rule doesn't always hold true though because mine have had 3-7 fingers/toes, not to mention extra feet), it's not a very clear shot. I looked at those beautiful slender toes and thought it couldn't be a japonicus because every picture I've seen has been of a fat adult with sausage fingers. The head shape may be wrong to be an axolotl, but it looked more like an axolotl to me than like a japonicus, once again every photo was a fat adult with a big wide head. The eyes ARE odd. Adult japonicus have tiny beady eyes that are almost not visible from a distance. The two albino salamanders have huge eyes, even bigger than a normal axolotl's eyes, and they're blue from the looks of the picture. I have some adults axolotls that lack the crest on their back almost entirely, but they're healthy.
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And how dare you doubt axolotl_jake ! :P
I guess I need to get my prescription checked!

Does anyone have a picture of a normal larval A.japonicus?(preferrably with the toes in plain view) Are they really that much different looking from the adults?



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