Hi! I'm new and really concerned...

Hello! I have, as of yesterday, come into a Water Dog (Salamander) or an Axolotl. They look the same to me from the pictures I've seen. I want to be sure on what to feed it at this time. I can worry about the rest (tank set up, etc.) later if it makes it. I was in a pet store that I have been to many times before. Long story short, this little creature was being eaten by feeder gold fish in a very full tank. I don't know if this is the extent of the problem or if a fungus or bacterial infection started this, but I brought it to an employee's attention, they switched it to another tank with fewer, but slightly larger fish, and 2 days later it was even worse. In watching, I saw the fish nibbling. I asked them to give it to me and they did. The poor thing's outer gills are mostly eaten off and skin on the top of the arms. I had to set up a new tank for it to treat with Melafix. I also used Stress Coat and Stress Zyme. Is there anything else I can do? I was told by another pet store I called, that I had a 1 in 10 chance of pulling it through. I'm trying anyway. Keep in mind that I am new to all this, but have been doing a lot of research and am thankful I found your web sight. We just got our first aquarium a few months ago for some aquatic frogs. So like I said, I am new to the whole aquarium thing. Thank you in advance for any help you can give!
Also, just checked again with flashlight to see better and there is a fuzzy, white substance coming from the gills. From what I have read previously, this would be a fungus? Should I also, or instead of Melafix, be treating with something else?

I wouldn't use Melafix. Axolotls are sensitive to chemicals. I would treat it with salt baths and refrigeration. You can find how to do this on caudata culture.

oregon newt said:

I wouldn't use Melafix. Axolotls are sensitive to chemicals. I would treat it with salt baths and refrigeration. You can find how to do this on caudata culture.

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All it says under ingredients on the Melafix bottle is Melaleuca, which is a natural oil. If there is anything else in there, they are not listing it. What if what I have here is a Salamander larvae? Would I treat the same way? I did do a salt bath today with 2 t. salt to 2 pints treated water. It's hard because everyone I talk to has a different opinion. Another guy I spoke to this evening at another pet store, who is familiar with the aquatic frogs and Salamanders, says to treat with Melafix only. I wish I knew for sure what I have here, in case it makes a difference. This is frustrating and time is critical right now. Thank you for the information. I will check it out.

Connie said:

All it says under ingredients on the Melafix bottle is Melaleuca, which is a natural oil.

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Just because it's natural doesn't mean it is healthy. Melaleuca is a turpentine derivative and may be harmful to your axolotl, especially considering he is already ill and stressed.

I would recommend both putting your axolotl/water dog in the fridge and beginning salt baths. For salt baths you can follow these simple directions from the Axolotl FAQ:

Give a bath in some salty water for about 10 minutes once or twice a day (2-3 teaspoons aquarium salt or non-iodized table salt per litre or quart). That should kill the fungus within a few days. Don't leave the axolotl in the salt bath for more than 10-15 minutes each time, because the salt will start to damage the axolotl's skin and gills.

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Note that when you do the salt bath, if the axolotl is in the fridge, use refrigerated water.

To keep your animal in the fridge make sure the temperature is above 40F (5C) and place the animal in a bucket like an ice cream pail. Cover this with a dish towel to keep the fridge light from bothering him. Change the water in this pail everyday with refrigerated water so that he doesn't experience an extreme temperature change. The colder water will slow his metabolism and cause less stress.

Connie said:

Hello! I have, as of yesterday, come into a Water Dog (Salamander) or an Axolotl. They look the same to me from the pictures I've seen.

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Hello Connie,

You need to find out whether it is an axolotl or a larvae salamander. If the the latter, it will morph into a tiger salamander. In that case, you will have to house it in a semi-aquatic tank that way when it does morph, it won't "drown".

If you post a picture, I'm sure other people will be able to help identify whether it is one or the other.

Jay.

Thank you for all the advice. I'm afraid there will be a delay on a picture. I am not the most computer literate. I will have to do a little research on the site to see how to go about doing that. I would definitely like to know which it is. It is 8" long, brown or dark green with spotty black blotches all over, 5 toes in back, four toes in front. It comes to the surface for air and makes bubbles and a noise. This may be common for both, but I will figure out how to get the picture on the site.

As far as the fungus...I thought I read somewhere (I have been trying to read everywhere I can) that I am suppose to try to take the fungus off? This could be pretty tricky since this little critter is so wiggly and slippery. I don't want to hurt it either. If so, will I not be able to get rid of the fungus if I don't? It also ate earthworms last night, so I hope that is a good sign.

If it's brown, over 4 inches in length, came from a pet store, and cost less than $50, then the odds are 99.99% that it is a wild-caught larval tiger salamander. Be sure to read this article, particularly the section about care during metamorphosis:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Ambystoma/A_tigrinum.shtml

The usual approach to fungus is salt baths. I've never heard of trying to remove it manually. As Abrahm suggested, get its temperature down, and use the refrigerator if you cannot do this effectively elsewhere in your house.

Melafix is a natural oil, but one of our former frequent posters (a zoo guy) was fond of pointing out that it's closely related chemically to turpentine, which is also a "natural oil".
http://www.caudata.org/forum/showthread.php?t=43767

I'm going to move this thread to the Newt&Sal Help section because it is more of a "help" thread than an intro. Welcome, and sorry you found us under adverse circumstances.

Connie said:

Thank you for all the advice. I'm afraid there will be a delay on a picture. I am not the most computer literate. I will have to do a little research on the site to see how to go about doing that. I would definitely like to know which it is. It is 8" long, brown or dark green with spotty black blotches all over, 5 toes in back, four toes in front. It comes to the surface for air and makes bubbles and a noise. This may be common for both, but I will figure out how to get the picture on the site.

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Hi Connie!
Pictures are easy to upload here once you have them in digital format. Do you have a cell (mobile) phone or digital camera? These both usually come with a plug that you can stick into the computer. You can then copy the pictures from your phone/camera to the pc and then up to the site here, or straight from the place (phone, camera) where your picture is if you can find it when you click the "browse" button. You upload the picture by scrolling a bit below the text box when answering and then clicking the button "Manage attachments". If you need more help, you can send me a private message and we'll work it out.

I've never heard my axolotl make noise and I've never imagined a salamander doing so - now my curiousity is aroused - how cool, what does the noise sound like? Axolotls pretty much only come to the surface if they are "gasping" for air - if the water does not have enough oxygen or has too much bad stuff like nitrite/nitrate. That's really easy to check, though. Do you have a method of checking these values? (Most widely known are these plastic strips that come in a canister, they have different squares of "litmus paper" and on the back of the canister is a scale to show you the reading.)

A fungus looks like mold on the animal - a raised white fuzzy spot or spots. You should not treat for fungus unless you know you have it, so if you are unsure, let's work on getting some pictures so the more experienced people here can offer you their medical advice.

Don't panic, your new babies will be fine, whatever they are. You are in the right place here. roud:

-Eva

blueberlin said:

I've never heard my axolotl make noise and I've never imagined a salamander doing so - now my curiousity is aroused - how cool, what does the noise sound like?

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Salamanders do not produce any sound because they lack the necessary vocal chords. However, some people (including myself) have heard axolotls produce a sound that is similar to a "puppy barking". This has only occured when the axolotl comes to the surface of the water to take an influx of air. Due to this influx of air through the gill slits (the stringy filaments on the back of an axolotl's head), a vacuum of inspiration results and hence the "puppy barking" effect.

Jay.

I luv you guys! Thank you for all the help. I've been worried about this little thing. I will work on the picture thing before I treat any more. I'm going to ask my husband to give me a hand with it. He doesn't even know yet that I have brought this home to nurse back to health because he's been really busy. We have a houseful between the animals and 2 kids, because I am involved in animal rescue. So he is going to think I'm crazy!

It, I'm sure is a fungus. White fuzzy looking stuff coming out or off of the damaged part of the gills and arms.

The sound is made when it comes to the surface for air. It was doing this at the pet store too. I don't know about the noise, but going up for air. I don't know how much they were asking for it (I can find out), because I asked them to give it to me so I could try to save it. They had no where else to put it and it was getting nibbled up by the fish. The gills were eaten up.

As far as getting enough air, the filter I got for the tank is an underwater filter. I had read about making sure the current was not too strong so I have it on low with no air bubbles, in a 20 long tank filled almost half way. No gravel for now and with a cave.

update:
The fuzzy stuff seems to be gone and the dangling peices of gill are off. I had gotten 2 salt baths in before I said I would put the treatment on hold until I could find out for sure what the problem was. So it seems to have worked. That was 2 baths in 2 days. Should I do one more to be sure?
Also as of yesterday, I did not use anymore Melafix and put the carbon back in to filter out the Melafix that is in there.
Keeping in mind this is a new aquarium I had to start a couple days ago, it will have to go through the whole cylce process with this little creature in it. Is there anything I can do to keep the stress to a minimum? I have no gravel in there yet either. Believe me when I tell you, the stress at this time has to be greatly reduced compared to the pet store situation. But I want it to get and stay healthy.
I am working on pictures. I would really like to know what it is I have here so I can set the aquarium up appropriately also.

You can reduce cycling stress by adding live plants or rocks or filter media from an established tank. Test often for ammonia and nitrite, and do large water changes if needed to keep the levels down.

I would recommend against any gravel, as they have a tendency to ingest it, sometimes with fatal results. Either use pebbles larger than the animal's head (with resulting difficulties in cleaning the dirt out of the tank), or a bit of very fine sand, or leave the bottom bare. I would recommend bare.

I'm glad that he's starting to turn around!

I would keep up the salt baths for a couple of more days just to make sure you got all the fungus. You certainly don't want it to come back.

As for your uncycled tank, I would just monitor the water quality closely with ammonia and nitrite tests every other day or so and 20-30% water changes twice a week or whenever the ammonia or nitrite on the tests becomes noticeable. Try to keep the tank as cool as possible.

You can speed up cycling by using Biospira.

Hi Connie. I am in the same boat as you. I am a newbie and the reason for joining this site so I can learn about axolotls. I have a sick axolotl as well. I have given him 2 salt baths, one each day, but I have used rock salt which is supposed to be the best salt to use on them. I will do another salt bath tommorrow and see how he goes. I am also using Melefix which I was told is a mild form of anti biotics. I have been adding this to the tank water each day according to the size of the tank. The fungus that my axalotl has got is columnaris which looks like a cotton wool type fungus that has affected his mouth and foot, this is quite a common fungus in most fish so I've been told. This is the treatment I am using I will soon know if it is working or not. I have the problem of him not eating at the moment. Stress in axolotls can cause their immune system to drop and they sometimes can pick up a fungal infection. Good luck with your sick axolotl, I'm hoping mine recovers soon.

A word on antibiotics - you know that they kill all bacteria, but in an aquarium we depend on bacteria for our biological filter. If you put antibiotics directly into the aquarium, your biological filter will crash and you'll have to start cycling all over again. To administer antibiotics, put the axolotl into a small container for treatment outside of the aquarium.

I hope y'all's babies recover quickly, too!

-Eva

blueberlin said:

A word on antibiotics - you know that they kill all bacteria, but in an aquarium we depend on bacteria for our biological filter. If you put antibiotics directly into the aquarium, your biological filter will crash and you'll have to start cycling all over again. To administer antibiotics, put the axolotl into a small container for treatment outside of the aquarium.

I hope y'all's babies recover quickly, too!

-Eva

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Okay, I used Melafix the first 2 days and then stopped, put the charcoal in the filter to help filter out the Melafix. Should I also do a water change this soon?

Jennewt said:

You can reduce cycling stress by adding live plants or rocks or filter media from an established tank. Test often for ammonia and nitrite, and do large water changes if needed to keep the levels down.

I would recommend against any gravel, as they have a tendency to ingest it, sometimes with fatal results. Either use pebbles larger than the animal's head (with resulting difficulties in cleaning the dirt out of the tank), or a bit of very fine sand, or leave the bottom bare. I would recommend bare.

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I do have an established aquarium with African Clawed Frogs in it. Would it be safe to transfer some rock from that tank to the new one. I do have a fairly new frog in there that seems to be healthy. I have had my eye on it for a while at the pet store before I took him home. He had been there for a few months.
Will sand cause a problem with the filter? I thought I read somewhere that if you keep a bare bottom tank, they over time become stressed because they can't grip the bottom (of a glass tank that is)?

Hi Connie!

I don't really know about Melafix, and I also don't know if charcoal will filter out antibiotics. (Somebody with more experience, please help..?)

Water changes never hurt, as long as you aren't stirring up the entire aquarium when doing so (which obviously you wouldn't; who would?). I don't know what tap water is like in your neck of the woods - do you have chlorine in it? In that case you would have to let the water sit at least overnight before adding it to the aquarium (I filled all of my biggest cooking pots and let them stand in the bathroom until I learned that here in Berlin there is no chlorine in the water). Apparently even the worst catastrophes in your aquarium are remedied by a major water change (percentages vary but I think 30% should do a good turn and half is certainly sufficient - again, anyone with more experience, please advise?) so you can't go wrong. Just siphon off the water and add more (dechlorinated) water. I like to also sweep the substrate when siphoning off water, just 'cuz.

Gosh I'm kind of scared now, making such a blanket statement.

Anyway what I meant was that antibiotics kill your bacteria, which you need in an aquarium (you know, the ammonia-nitrite-nitrate chain), so you will need to test your water values to watch for nitrite (nitrite with I, not nitrate with A) spikes. The cure for nitrite spikes is... drum roll... water changes. So as long as you are adding safe water and aren't gushing water in so that everyone and everything flies up to the top of the water, you can't really go wrong with a water change.

Connie said:

Will sand cause a problem with the filter? I thought I read somewhere that if you keep a bare bottom tank, they over time become stressed because they can't grip the bottom (of a glass tank that is)?

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Sand will not cause a problem with the filter.

I, personally, also believe that a bare bottom is not pleasant for our little squishy ones, but many people here are of another opinion and actually prefer them. This is one of those kinds of decisions you will have to make for yourself (I hope that doesn't sound rude!)