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Illness/Sickness: fungus & sick?

katejh

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Hi,
I got my little rex the albino axie 6 weeks ago
I established my tank for 7 days before putting him in
He started eating properly four days after being put in (I've been feeding him several lambs liver strips per day, which is the only thing I could get him to eat)

But...
about a week ago he started going up for big gulps of air, stopped eating as much and flapping his gills lots
He isnt swimming as straight he goes to push off but his back legs or tail arent working too well
I did a 30% water change yesterday the water was a bit yellow, but the ammonia levels were fine
Then found a fungus on one of his gills tonight when I got home

I have lowered the tank temp to 16 degrees celcius, given him a 10min salt bath and gently removed the fungus with tweezers, I also added a bit of melafix to the tank (not sure if that was the best thing to do but done now), his gills are still flapping alot

Can anybody give me any suggestions? I'm very new to this!!!
I love my little guy and really want him to be happy & healthy! thanks
 

Jacquie

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I established my tank for 7 days before putting him in
He started eating properly four days after being put in (I've been feeding him several lambs liver strips per day, which is the only thing I could get him to eat)

Hi Katejh,

By established I assume you are referring to cycling? Cycling a tank can take from one to three months. Seven days is not sufficient to cycle a tank. This article describes cycling in detail: http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/cyclingEDK.shtml

Lambs liver is not a good staple diet for axolotls. THis article gives a comprehensive list of appropriate foods for axolotls: http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/foods.shtml

But...
about a week ago he started going up for big gulps of air, stopped eating as much and flapping his gills lots
He isnt swimming as straight he goes to push off but his back legs or tail arent working too well
I did a 30% water change yesterday the water was a bit yellow, but the ammonia levels were fine
Then found a fungus on one of his gills tonight when I got home

As you tank has not completed the cycle, you should be doing 20% partial water changes DAILY.

What sort of test kit are you using? If you are using the dip strip test kits, they are notorious for giving inaccurate readings. Test tube kits are the best kits to use as they are accurate. Accuracy is important as any reading higher than '0' for Ammonia or Nitrite is toxic to an axolotl.

When the Ammonia and Nitrite levels read at a consistant '0' and the Nitrate levels are from 10-60 - this is an indication that the cycle is complete. Until the cycle is complete, you need to be doing the daily 20% water changes - these partial water changes keep undesirable Ammonia and Nitrite levels under control. When the cycle is complete, 10-20% water changes need only be done about once a week.

What size is the tank?

I have lowered the tank temp to 16 degrees celcius, given him a 10min salt bath and gently removed the fungus with tweezers, I also added a bit of melafix to the tank (not sure if that was the best thing to do but done now), his gills are still flapping alot

Treatments should always be given in a seperate container. You should never add medication to the tank and some medications used for fish are toxic to an axolotl. Salt baths are sufficient for the treatment of fungus.

I would take the axolotl out of the tank and put him in a container of fresh dechlorinated water.

To aid in the treatment of fungus and to prevent its return, put him in the fridge - set the fridge for 5 degrees celcius, no lower. You will need to keep bottles of dechlorinated water in the fridge as these will be used for the 100% daily water changes and the salt baths if required.

Is the fungus still there? If so, salt baths will need to be done 2 - 3 times daily. Dissolve 2-3 teaspoons of salt per litre of water and leave axie in for 10 minutes - no longer than 15.

If the fungus is gone, I would keep the axie in the fridge to ensure it does not come back. This will also buy you time to sort out the tank and fix any problems with it.

I note you are from Australia so I know it is late. Tomorrow, I would seriously consider emptying the tank and starting it again from scratch while your axie enjoys his holiday in the fridge.
 
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katejh

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thankyou so much for your advice!

the melafix bottle told me lies, I will not be using it again!

I have a 60L tank 60cmx30cmx40cm with 1/2 bare bottom 1/2 rive pebbles all bigger than rex's head, a big piece of drift wood and a plastic hideout

I have a test tube ph kit, which tells me its at neutral,
I have permanent ammonia tester in the tank
I need to buy a nitrite kit tonight! eek! I will get a test tube ammonia kit too if the other type is innaccurate!

I gave him a salt bath last night out of the tank with the right dosage
The fungus didnt grow back over night
I gave him another this morning

Can I put rex in a container in my laundry where the room temp is 8 degrees celcius, rather than the fridge (the light is so bright im sure it will scare him!) I will do 100% water changes with declorinated water every day (will this stress him out?) and give him salt baths for the next week to keep the fungus away

I will start from scratch and cycle my tank tonight.
I was given declorinator/stabiliser from the pet shop, is that ok to use to remove chlorine?
I have a heater which keeps the tank at 16 degrees celcius, should I turn it off while cycling?
What can I use as an ammonia source if I cant get brine shrimp?

I tried to feed rex blood worms and he wouldn't eat them, liver was all he would eat (and he really liked it), but I will swap to beef heart, with earthworms as treats is that ok?
Alot of the food on that list is hard to get here!
 

Kaysie

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Boy howdy. Let's dive in.

The substrate may be hard to clean, and as Rex grows, the pebbles may be an inappropriate size. You should seriously think about switching to sand or just a bare bottom.

You'll need more hides. Try using clay pots turned on the side.

You'll need a test-tube ammonia kit, as well as nitrite and nitrate.

Keep on the salt baths for a couple of days. If they're helping, that's good. Give a couple even after the fungus is completely gone, in case there are microscopic fungus patches left.

The laundry is fine as long as there's no risk of contamination of the water (think fumes, dust, splash, etc). If you're worried about the light, wrap a towel around the container to block the light.

100% water changes are needed just because there is such a small amount of water. It's slightly stressful. But it's not as stressful as having poor water. Make sure your fresh water is the same temperature as your old water (store treated water in the same place where the axolotl is kept).

The bottle should tell you that it treats chlorine. I suggest using one that also treats for chloramines.

You don't need a heater. Unless your tank falls below 10C, you don't need a heater at all. If you want to use a heater while cycling, you can. It won't speed it up too much though. For ammonia source, you can use any type of meat. Brine shrimp, a bit of burger, anything that will rot will work fine.

A better diet would be earth worms with beef heart and liver as a treat. Earthworms are very nutritionally complete.
 

katejh

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Okay, more hides are on their way!
Im picking up a nitrite and nitrate test kit tonight and cycling my tank
Ill try earthworms tonight, but im not really expecting him to have much of an appetite in the cold!

Im at work and have been fretting about him all day! thankyou for the help I'll keep you posted
 

Jacquie

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Im picking up a nitrite and nitrate test kit tonight and cycling my tank
Ill try earthworms tonight, but im not really expecting him to have much of an appetite in the cold!

Im at work and have been fretting about him all day! thankyou for the help I'll keep you posted

Hi Katejh,

You will also need an Ammonia test tube kit. The permanant ammonia tester you have in the tank I am guessing uses the same method as test strips and I would say is just as useless - I would chuck it.

The axie's metabolism is slowed in the cold so you are right the axie may not be inclined to eat - but try him each day anyhow. I would leave the worm with him for a few hours as he may wish to eat in privacy ;)

And yes please, keep us posted! :D

Cheers Jacq.
 

katejh

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So rex is looking a bit better tonight, much more active, ive taken him out of the tank and into a cool place & hes about to get his second salt bath for the day

He still couldnt push off and swim with his back legs though, so I need to do something about the tank

The readings for the tank, with my new test tube testers are:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrate:15
Nitrite:0.25
ph: neutral

Is there anything unusual there?
If not, should I still refill my tank and start from scratch anyway, or just do 20% water changes every day when I put rex back in?
If I start from scratch how long until I can put him back in during the cycling process?

Thanks for the help guys!
 

Jacquie

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So rex is looking a bit better tonight, much more active, ive taken him out of the tank and into a cool place & hes about to get his second salt bath for the day

Oh Good. ;)

He still couldnt push off and swim with his back legs though, so I need to do something about the tank!

Katejh, what sort of substrate are you using? If you are using gravel and it is smaller than the axies head, I would recommend you remove it immediately - gravel if ingested can cause the axie to come to grief in trying to pass it and can be fatal.

Can he move his back legs at all?

The readings for the tank, with my new test tube testers are:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrate:15
Nitrite:0.25
ph: neutral

Is there anything unusual there?
If not, should I still refill my tank and start from scratch anyway, or just do 20% water changes every day when I put rex back in?
If I start from scratch how long until I can put him back in during the cycling process?

Those readings indicate the tank is cycling, but by putting Melafix direct into the tank - I think it would be best to start again from scratch (ie. Totally new water). Axolotls are very senstive to chemicals.

There are two ways to cycle a tank. With living animals and with the non living.

If you opt to cycle the tank with your axie (I personally would recommend this method) then you will need to do 20% daily water changes until the cycle is complete. The axies wastes will be doing the cycling. Cycling can take 1 - 3 months to complete. Test the water reguarly to monitor Ammonia and Nitrite levels which should read as '0'. These levels will on occasion rise though, this is normal and the daily partial water changes will keep undesirable levels under control until the tank can fully cycle. When the Ammonia and Nitrite read as a consistant '0' and the Nitrate reads from 10-60 - this is an indication that the cycle is complete. When cycle is complete, partial 10-20% water changes need only be done once weekly.

If you opt to do it the 'non living' method. Keep the axie in the tub of fresh dechlorinated water that will need to be changed 100% daily and keep somewhere cool in the house. Consult the article on cycling on this method - I've personally never done cycling by this method.

Thanks for the help guys![/quote]
 

katejh

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I have 1/2 bare bottom tank, 1/2 big river pebbles all much bigger than his head. There is no small gravel in the tank

He can move his back legs fine, sorry I didnt explain properly in the last post,
He sortof stands on his back legs to kick of and swim up in the tank, (he has long arms and legs), but its like he cant get the momentum and use his tail enough so he swims up for a bit then falls back down. He also has little red veins showing on his head, so i think hes a bit stressed. Hes still very responsive, just not eating yet (he regurgitated one piece of liver I had fed him two days ago today), I have left a live worm with him in the container now.

I'm going to change the water now then. Start from scratch.
When I cycle the tank, will I need to add the ammonia source before I put rex back in?
 

Jacquie

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When I cycle the tank, will I need to add the ammonia source before I put rex back in?

No, the cycle will start when Rex is ready to be put back in the tank - his wastes will provide the ammonia.

Leaving the tank to stand and filter away merrily for a week while axie is on holidays will give him a lovely fresh start.
 

katejh

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Rex on Saturday before fungus:
(last pic)
Ok tank ready to filter away and ill put rex back in in a weeks time.

So last night everything was looking ok, I gave rex a salt bath then put him in fresh declorinated water, which was at the same temp as his tank water (so he wouldnt get a shock), then left him in a cold space (10 degrees) and left the water to cool down by itself.

When I looked in on him an hour or so later I noticed he had a few little white bits on his gills
(first pic)


The water had cooled down over night but when I went in to give him a salt bath this morning his gills were half white and have shrunk abit!
second pic)

He hasnt eaten the worms Ive left for him, but I guess thats because of the cold?
 

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oregon newt

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Those readings indicate the tank is cycling, but by putting Melafix direct into the tank - I think it would be best to start again from scratch (ie. Totally new water). Axolotls are very senstive to chemicals.
Can't you just put in some carbon to absorb the medecine?
 

Jacquie

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So last night everything was looking ok, I gave rex a salt bath then put him in fresh declorinated water, which was at the same temp as his tank water (so he wouldnt get a shock), then left him in a cold space (10 degrees) and left the water to cool down by itself.

When I looked in on him an hour or so later I noticed he had a few little white bits on his gills
(first pic)

Hi Katejh,

I would move him into the fridge and set the fridge for at least 5 degrees celcius - no lower than this. The fridge has the advantages of:

- Keeping the axolotl at a fixed and constant temperature day and night. I think keeping him in a cold room is not as reliable as the temperatures are fluctuating back and forth doing him no favours.

- At 5 degrees the fridge helps kill the fungus. Fungus cannot survive at this temperture.

- The axies metabolism is slowed right down, he won't eat as much true - but his weight loss will also slow down.

- The fridge will help the axie relax and heal - they love the cold!

The water had cooled down over night but when I went in to give him a salt bath this morning his gills were half white and have shrunk abit!

The gills will change colour, this is normal. Axies gills will be darker the more active they are, paler the more inactive they are.

Gills will recede when there is more oxegan in the water.

He hasnt eaten the worms Ive left for him, but I guess thats because of the cold?

Axies eat less in colder conditions yes.

Can't you just put in some carbon to absorb the medecine?

You could if your filter has the facility to put the carbon in. Absorbing is not getting rid of something though as it would still be there.

Katejh's tank has only been established for a week, there is no harm in starting again and gives the peace of mind that there is absolutely no melafix left over in the tank.
 
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oregon newt

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Couldn't the shrinking gills be due to stress? I would think there would be alot of stress in this situation. If the gills did shrink due to more oxygen, I imagine the white bits could be because of that.
 

katejh

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Im starting to think that it is stress that made his gills shrink, and the white is because of that, it looks like it changed way too quick to be fungus, but im not sure.

I know it definately was fungus when he was in the tank, it was isolated to one gill and very cottony while stuff stuck on.

I think all I can do is give him salt baths every day to keep fungus away, and keep him out of the tank in fresh water everyday, but im scared this is stressing him out too much!

I have completely emptied my tank and re-filled with de-clorinated water, & will put rex back in in a weeks time & cycle the tank with him in it.

Do you guys recommend or discourage me from using a 'bio-filter establishment product' I have something called 'stabiliser' I was given at the pet store, im supposed to put a cap in a day for a week (I could do it while rex is out of tank this week)?
 

oregon newt

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Do you mean like starter bacteria? If so, I don't reccomend you use it. There is only one product that actually works. It's called Biospira.
 

katejh

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Im very sad to say rex didnt make it. I got home on friday afternoon, and the fungus had completely taken over and rex wasnt moving at all, or breathing. After a few hours his body started to stiffen up, so I had to admit he had died :(

Poor little guy didnt even have a chance. I feel really bad, but I think he was never really very well to begin with. He never swum straight, always had a funny white/ red looking skin patches and red veins on his head.

I feel like a bad axie mum, If I ever get the strength to buy another axie Ill be back here to make sure I do it right. Thanks for the help.

RIP Rex
 

Kerry1968

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So sorry to hear about Rex. I hope you feel able to get another axie, I'm sure you did all you could for Rex. Kerry
 

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Hi, I'm having a similar illness problem with an Axolotyl as you had katejh and thought I would post my problem here instead of creating a new thread.

My brother got 2 albino Axies at the petshop last Thursday and we were told then that they hadn't been eating properly (and the lady showed us the food left in the tank covered in fungus that they hadn't eaten, that should have been enough of a warning sign then and there, but it didn't click as we've never had Axolotyls before). So, needless to say when we got them home one was almost dead, but we thought it might have just been from the car trip (we live in a small country town, with the nearest shopping centre 60km away, but we made sure we went straight home after the pet shop, as we always do when getting fish).

Anyway, the sick one is considerably smaller than the other one, who is perfectly fine and happy (and eating!) in his new tank, and the next day I noticed he had some white cottony stuff on his gills, so I did some googling and came across this thread, and saw that it was fungus. After researching I found that I should be giving him baths and keeping him in the fridge, but my mum rang the petshop and abused them for selling us sick Axies, and the shop told her that salt baths would kill this "scaleless fish" (!) and so would refridgeration, so that shows how much they know. And they said they would replace the Axie if it died, but I didn't want to have it die and I knew it would only die under their care if we took it back. So I've been giving it salt baths twice a day and keeping him in the fridge since last Friday (with fresh water changes daily).

But it's now Thursday, a week since we got him and the fungus is still there and slowly getting worse, and he hasn't eaten yet, even though I've offered him food everyday (sometimes a bit of an earthworm and sometimes a pellet) and I'm worried about how long it's been since he has eaten because the pet shop people wouldnt have a clue. So I'm just wondering if anybody's had this problem before and if it takes this long for them to get better, whether I should be worried or not (though I'm going to be worried anyway!).

I took a couple of photos to post too, the first one is last Friday when he first got the fungus, the second and third are from about half an hour ago when I had him out for a salt bath, and the fourth is of the other Axie.. you wouldn't think they came from the same tank in the pet shop!



Oh, and katejh, I've been following your Axie's progress since last week hoping it would show some light at the end of the tunnel, so I'm sorry to hear about Rex, poor guy.
 

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Jacquie

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So I've been giving it salt baths twice a day and keeping him in the fridge since last Friday (with fresh water changes daily).

But it's now Thursday, a week since we got him and the fungus is still there and slowly getting worse, and he hasn't eaten yet, even though I've offered him food everyday (sometimes a bit of an earthworm and sometimes a pellet) and I'm worried about how long it's been since he has eaten because the pet shop people wouldnt have a clue. So I'm just wondering if anybody's had this problem before and if it takes this long for them to get better, whether I should be worried or not (though I'm going to be worried anyway!).

Hi Kirin,

Fungus can be pretty frustrating and can take quite some time to go away. That fungus on the axies gills looks well established and will take some time to kill. Just keep up with the salt baths, but for that fungus level I would be doing salt baths three times a day.

With a cotton bud, very gently dab at the fungus and see if it starts to break away - as it is on the gills, be very gentle and patient.

While in the fridge, your axies metabolism is slowed right down and he will not be inclined to eat. But at the same time, weight loss is also slowed down. Axies can go without food for up to three months. Keep offering food each day and leave it for a few hours with him and he may partake with some privacy ;) - if he does not, don't worry this is perfectly normal.
 
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