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Last Option...

broadbent30

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I have used my last option today,

I have 3 axolotls 1 male and 2 female living in the one tank.

The 2 females seam to be as healthy as can be, they eat, swim and do everything a normal axolotl does...

But my male is a little "odd", he wont eat, likes to float and spend time out of the water...

So after about 3 months of not eating much and a growing fear that he will soon become the females dinner i have removed him from the main tank to a smaller tank.

He last ate about a week ago and is about 10cm long and very thin (the female's are almost double his size)

Do you think that the cause maybe caused by sharing a tank with the females?
He has fathered one lot of eggs with 1 of the females but nothing has happened since then?

Also i set his new tank up so he can get out of the water if he wants, he seams to love being out and i'm worried that he will change... because i dont think he is the type that does??? :(
 

Darkmaverick

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Hi Broadbent,

Axolotls like any species of animal, have varying constitution and personalities. As such, some animals may be more vulnerable or sensitive to stressors in their environment, or may be more prone to be a 'bully' or a 'victim'.

I think it was a good move to separate the male axolotl from the females. Firstly, the isolation can prevent spread of any disease if present to your other axolotls. Secondly, it allows you to monitor that axolotl more closely. Thirdly to ease and facilitate maintenance of water and nutritional requirements. Lastly, to eliminate the possibility of bullying by the females.

It is normal for female axolotls to appear rounder/plumper by nature of eggs present. A photo of your male axolotl may shed some light if it is truly skinny or just comparatively 'slimmer' but of normal healthy size.

What i would recommend is, since you have already separated the male axolotl in a different tank, it is imperative that you keep him as stress-free as possible by providing optimal environmental conditions.

1) Monitor his water parameters - 0 ammonia and nitrite, <60 for nitrate, pH neutral of around 7.
2) Monitor the water temperature - Keep it cool around 16-18 degrees celsius.
3) Provide some aeration such as with a fountain type filter/airstone but not excessive currents.
4) Provide environmental enrichment - 2 hiding places/plants etc.
5) Ensure correct substrate used if any - i personally prefer sand.

Next, i would investigate his nutrition. Some axolotls are more fastidious and finicky with food selection so i might offer a variety. Offer the food during evening time when axies are most active. Remove any excess uneaten food. It would be good to observe if the axolotl feeds on a particular type of food or is completely inappetant.

- Earthworms, bloodworms, axolotl pellets, bits of beef heart, shrimps etc.

I would then consider eliminating other causes of poor body condition such as any underlying disease/illness/parasites or spontaneous metamorphosis.

Are there any other accompanying signs of your axolotl's ill thrift and inappetance? Have you observed any of the following:

- Shrinking or twisted gills, gills facing forwards or have unusual cottony growths
- Any unusual discolouration, fuzzy grey to white patches or growths on any part of body
- Unusual behaviour such as writhing to try 'scratch' itself, excessive regurgitation of mucus covered food boluses, erratic frantic swimming around constantly etc.
- Shrinking tail/fin, curled tail end
- Eyes appearing to be protruding more/ eyelids forming??

It is not advisable to try treat this axolotl yourself with over the pet shop counter type medications/ supplements.

If you have already done all of the above and the problem is chronic and persistent, you may like to consider bringing your axolotl to the vet to investigate for underlying disease such as through a blood/faecal analysis/culture.

Hope it turns out well for you.

Regards
 

callina

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Hi,

are you really sure, that he is an axolotl?:confused:
10cm-axolotls are almost very young, maybe 3 months old and at this time you cannot see if they are male or female.
Besides, axolotl don’t leave the water.

Maybe a picture can help to identify him.


Regard, Tina
 

broadbent30

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1) Monitor his water parameters - 0 ammonia and nitrite, <60 for nitrate, pH neutral of around 7.
2) Monitor the water temperature - Keep it cool around 16-18 degrees celsius.
3) Provide some aeration such as with a fountain type filter/airstone but not excessive currents.
4) Provide environmental enrichment - 2 hiding places/plants etc.
5) Ensure correct substrate used if any - i personally prefer sand.

Are there any other accompanying signs of your axolotl's ill thrift and inappetance? Have you observed any of the following:

- Shrinking or twisted gills, gills facing forwards or have unusual cottony growths
- Any unusual discolouration, fuzzy grey to white patches or growths on any part of body
- Unusual behaviour such as writhing to try 'scratch' itself, excessive regurgitation of mucus covered food boluses, erratic frantic swimming around constantly etc.
- Shrinking tail/fin, curled tail end
- Eyes appearing to be protruding more/ eyelids forming??

Thanks for the long reply, there is a load of information and jolted me on some extra information :happy:

I was going to do a water change every day to help with the parameters and stuff

Ill try keep it cool with a small frozen bottle the main tank sits about 19 - 21 when i don't have the Air-con turned on.

I have the an air stone but have it turned down a fair bit...

His gills a few weeks back were almost non-existent but now what are growing back a bit.
Also a white patch on his back which looks like a blister, he has had it for a while now and it hasn't changed?
His whole body shrunk not just his tale and his eyes are bulging out "kinda"

ill try get some photos of him and the females up in the next 20mins or so

Thanks again for all your information

very much appreciated
 

broadbent30

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Hi,

are you really sure, that he is an axolotl?:confused:
10cm-axolotls are almost very young, maybe 3 months old and at this time you cannot see if they are male or female.
Besides, axolotl don’t leave the water.

Maybe a picture can help to identify him.


Regard, Tina

He is at least 7 - 9 months old??? i will work on a photo now
Im sure he is an axolotl thou??? i wouldn't really be able to tell :confused:
 

broadbent30

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This is all 3 when i first got them



This is female 1 (she is quite large but i couldn't get a better photo)



The is female 2 (she had the eggs)



This is my boy in his new home for a while





More of a gill's shot



This is an old photo of the white lump above his rear leg a bit closer to his middle...



Sorry i couldn't get a side shot, there is a rock in the way and the other tank on the other side???

i hope they show more information oh and i should add that i think i may have miss judged his size he looks alot bigger then 10cm
 

Neke

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are you really sure, that he is an axolotl?:confused:

Hopefully somebody will correct me if I'm wrong, but I vaguely remember reading a while back that axolotls are the only salamanders we are allowed to keep in Australia :happy:
 

kira

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Hopefully somebody will correct me if I'm wrong, but I vaguely remember reading a while back that axolotls are the only salamanders we are allowed to keep in Australia :happy:

This is true. (unfortunatley)
 

optimist

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He definitely doesn't look well, and as you say seems to have got thinner. Maybe taking him out and putting him in a tank on his own will sort him. I'd keep it dark, and be vigilant over water quality. Also, I've read stuff on here about "gut loading" worms etc - try that, so that if he does eat he'll be getting extra. Hope he recovers.
 

Darkmaverick

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Hi broadbent,

Firstly to allay your fears, yes your axolotl is an axolotl. Neke and Kira are both on the dot when they say axolotls are the only type of salamanders kept in Australia.

Thank you for also posting pictures of your axolotl which allows a better assessment of his condition. In fact, i highly recommend people to take sequential photographs of their sick axolotl over a course of time to allow a comparison of their condition and progress.

Judging from the photos, i would say in all fairness that your axolotls were initially healthy to start with and the body condition deteriorated over time. This information itself rules out genetic/congenital problem.

There is definitely evidence of stress as seen by the curled tail tip in the 6th photo. There is also signs of shrinking gills and loss of body condition with a chronic nature. Also on a separate note, i really recommend either switching to a bare bottom tank or sand substrate. The white pebbles although looking relatively large, could still pose as a pontential source of impaction. I do not see any visible signs of fungal or bacterial infection on the gills. Gills can shrink naturally when the axolotl's environment is oxygenated well.

What is most cause of concern though, is the last picture showing a well-circumscribed, white circular lesion on the flank. Although i cannot definitively tell you what it is, there are several disease processes that may mimic the lesion in terms of appearance and presentation. Some of these causes include -

- Fungal (such as by saprolegnia infection)
- Bacteria (such as by mycobateria which can form a granuloma)
- Ectoparasites (irritant to skin and can also cause lesion formation)
- Trauma (such as from an abrasion or penetrating wound)

Although there are many causes of the lesion, the only way to accurately tell what it is, is to bring it to your vet who may like to take a skin/blood/faecal sample for analysis. Even though the external skin lesion may be gone, there is a possibilty that there is a subclinical systemic presentation which can result in inappetance, ill thrift and stress.

Fortunately, there is a common panacea to treat the above conditions. Your goal now is to encourage feeding, reduce stress and inhibit microbial activity.

1) Fridging your axolotl
You might like to refridgerate your axolotl for 2 weeks under 4 degrees celsius. During this time, do daily water changes with clean dechlorinated water also kept in the fridge to prevent shocks associated with drastic temperature changes. Good idea to monitor water parameters if you can.

The rationale behind this is that the cold fridge environment is hostile to many of the pathogenic bacteria, fungus and ectoparasites that can affect the axolotl. This itself can prevent these microbes from proliferating and even kill them.

Secondly, the cold environment (plus dark when you close the fridge door), is like a sanctuary to de stress your axolotl. Besides eliminating the stress, you can also boost the axolotl's immune system this way which can help fight infections (visible or not).

Daily water changes would ensure levels of harmful microbes and wastes in the water be kept low.

2) Encourage feeding

If you are fridging your axolotl, it may be difficult to encourage it to eat due to the colder temperature. What you can do is to offer a variety of food in small bite size pieces that are easily digestable (not taking too long to digest in the cold).

- Chop up gut loaded earthworms (as optimum suggested) in 2-3cm strips. You can gut load your earthworms by feeding them flaked goldfish food, bread, vegetables etc.

- I personally feed sick axolotls a 'miracle mash'. What i do is to use a food processor and blend the following (or a combination) - fresh shrimp, bits of fish fillet (avoid white fish), beef heart, even earthworms, and moistened axolotl pellets. I would then roll this dough into pea-sized portions before offering. I find that the mash is commonly accepted by axolotls because firstly, it is easily ingested (small enough) and digested, has nutrition due to the composition of the mash, is easily prepared and stored in the fridge, and its generally quite palatable due to the smells associated with the ingredients. Remember to remove uneaten food.

Hope this is of assistance. Feel free to ask any further questions.

Regards.
 

broadbent30

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Thanks for all the very helpful information it is helping me out more then words can say:p

ill keep you updated on his progress,
i am about to offer him some more food now about lunch time then again later on.
also being in his own tank he dont have the female pushing for food also :D
 

broadbent30

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Axolotl Out of Water?

Hey,

I talked about my axolotl in a post "last option" but this is a new post as it is a different subject?

He still doesn't want to eat, but he did take two attempts at having a bite but missed twice then gave up???:(

Also my air stone crumbled in his own tank, so i had to put him back in the main tank till i get a new one. ( He loved it did a few laps then sat on his hiding space:D)

But what i have noticed it he is still spending time out of water?
What i mean is he will just keep swimming up trying to get out, so i put a platform in so he can sit out of the water. I'm worried he will drown (yes i know he is ment to live underwater but i dont want him to drown???)

My other concern is how long i should let him be out of the water?
He is half in at the moment but does go for a walk till he is right out and just sits there?

This can not be good for him can it?

On a plus note the white lump that i looked at yesterday seams to have vanished over night its got me beat any way.

I have included some photos so you know what i'm talking about:p

PS. I know your not meant to handle you axolotls, but i thought i would help him back into the water and... he went nuts almost swam out of the tank, so i gently scooped him from the water and he settled down right away.

Then the most strangest yet some what cute thing happened? He stuck his head high in the air then walked up my arm till he reached my elbow, i placed him back on his platform and he is just sitting there? :grin:

Any way here are the photos, ill see if i can get one of him sticking his head up or some thing.





 

Azhael

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Re: Axolotl Out of Water?

Your axolotl is morphing. Note the gills shrinking(they will eventully disappear), and the tail fin mostly vanished...
Axolotls are not supossed to morph, which means that they sometimes don´t survive, or survive for a short time.
Something must have triggered metamorphosing, i´ve heard food rich in ¿iodine? can trigger metamorphosis. I suposse inadecuate temps, water quality, etc, could force the axolotl´s body to morph too...i dunno.
Also, your animal is a golden albino, if i remember well, these were "created" by hybridation with tiger slamanders, which means that there might be genes in your axolotl that contain the information necessary to morph at a certain point.

From now on you´re going to need a terrestrial set-up for it, just treat it like you would a tiger salamander.

Anyway, wait until someone more knowledgeable on axolotls chimes in, i might be wrong in some of my points.
 

broadbent30

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Re: Axolotl Out of Water?

Your axolotl is morphing. Note the gills shrinking(they will eventully disappear), and the tail fin mostly vanished...
Axolotls are not supossed to morph, which means that they sometimes don´t survive, or survive for a short time.
Something must have triggered metamorphosing, i´ve heard food rich in ¿iodine? can trigger metamorphosis. I suposse inadecuate temps, water quality, etc, could force the axolotl´s body to morph too...i dunno.
Also, your animal is a golden albino, if i remember well, these were "created" by hybridation with tiger slamanders, which means that there might be genes in your axolotl that contain the information necessary to morph at a certain point.

From now on you´re going to need a terrestrial set-up for it, just treat it like you would a tiger salamander.

Anyway, wait until someone more knowledgeable on axolotls chimes in, i might be wrong in some of my points.

Thank you for you reply i never knew he was a golden albino:eek:

It maybe just his genes as the other two have always been in the same tank and fed the same and every thing???

Im looking into all the morphing stuff now there is a fair bit of information i will need to find out if he is indeed morphing i dont even know what a tiger salamander is:confused:

Oh and i was just reading a news post http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/7161611.stm
and this really shocked me when it said about forming eyelids i can swear mine blinked??? ill have to have another look...
 

ferret_corner

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Re: Axolotl Out of Water?

WOW is he really that reddish? Looks painful. Is it the pictures, my computer or is it for real?

Sharon
 

Azhael

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Re: Axolotl Out of Water?

I´m pretty certain your axolotl is defnitely undergoing metamorphosis.
Tiger salamanders are very close relatives to xolotls, they are both Ambystoma.

Have you taken a look at this page?? I suspect you might have not, so make sure you read this caresheet:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Ambystoma/A_mexicanum.shtml

Also, for the morphing one, check this one:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Ambystoma/A_tigrinum.shtml

It will need the same conditions and general care as the latter species.
 

broadbent30

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Re: Axolotl Out of Water?

I´m pretty certain your axolotl is defnitely undergoing metamorphosis.
Tiger salamanders are very close relatives to xolotls, they are both Ambystoma.

Have you taken a look at this page?? I suspect you might have not, so make sure you read this caresheet:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Ambystoma/A_mexicanum.shtml

Also, for the morphing one, check this one:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Ambystoma/A_tigrinum.shtml

It will need the same conditions and general care as the latter species.

Thank you, ill be sure to check them out right away, im reading a bunch of pages now and have "tabs" every where :p

does any one know an axolotl does this because he feels like does it mean he still wont live as long?

Also do you know of any thread explaining how to help him morph more smoothly?
 

pete

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Re: Axolotl Out of Water?

Yes your salamander appears to be morphing. At this point you could lower your water level to about 7-8 cm (3 in.) with some objects for the animal to get out of the water. When I had tigers morphing I'd place a a decent sized tupperware container of moist soil/stone hides in the tank for the animal to use and once it spent the majority of the time there, I switched to a terrestrial set up. There are plenty of different strategies to use. You'll likely have a period where the animal won't eat, because its mouth has to morph. Sometimes people have problems getting them eating. I find crickets to be a good food to get them started on. Worms can require a bit of work. Good luck.

This thread should be useful to you. http://www.caudata.org/forum/showthread.php?t=51411

If it morphs while still young it will live a normal life. If you induce it to morph as an adult the lifespan seems to be shortened.
 

broadbent30

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Re: Axolotl Out of Water?

Thanks for the info on the water level and tank set up iv found a bit on the set ups but i will have to made some thing up tomorrow morning, its all so unexpected i hope it all goes well for him:happy:

so in short i should keep him in a small amount of water 7 - 8cm and place some bits in the tank so he can get out if he wants? then once he spends most of his time out of the water.

place him into a tank with mostly damp soil and a water bowl, potted plants and some hiding spots. then fed him on live crickets / worms...

Please feel free to add any thing to this its all helpful no matter what:D

Thank you again for the help
 
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