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fire belly and endlers...

napoleon

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I was wondering, if I put a FBN in a tank with endler livebearers, would he eat the fry? That would make a good live food source (not the main food source, but once in a while). Or am I mistaken?
Would he bother the adults?
 

Jennewt

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I had to look up endlers, as I've never heard of them. They are similar to guppies and can interbreed with guppies. I also read that endlers prefer temperatures on the warm side (over 25C/78f). Given their temperature preference, it would be very inappropriate to put a FBN in the same tank with them. If you keep the FBN in a cold water tank, the endler fry would be appropriate as a feeder item.

Napoleon, your forum profile is incomplete. Please read our forum rules, and amend as needed. Thanks.
 

Azhael

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Not a good idea. The fish are tropical, they need warmer temperatures at which the newts shouldn´t be exposed to.
 

xMIDNIGHTx

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Endler Liverbearers as you know are tropical. Firebelly newts are not. If you keep them in a cool tank with no heater you might be able to pull this off. I do not think the newt would eat any of the fry and I would worry more about the adults picking on the newt than the other way around.

Another thing to remember is you need a haul out point for the newt so it can come out of the water from time to time and with that being said you will have to low the water level. To be perfectly honest, its not a good idea to mix species. It better to have a separate tank for the newt. If you insist on having small fish, make sure you have the tank setup for the newt and if the fish can live in there then so be it.

I had some feeder guppies with my newt when I first got it and it seemed that my newt never liked to be in the water after a week or two. When I separated them the newt returned to the water. Some people have guppies/cloud minnows with their newts, but for some it doesnt work. Fish being any type of food source is not going to happen with Cynops.

Mitch
 

napoleon

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Napoleon, your forum profile is incomplete. Please read our forum rules, and amend as needed. Thanks.

I changed my country... is there anything else (I couln't find it).

Not a good idea. The fish are tropical, they need warmer temperatures at which the newts shouldn´t be exposed to.

They are kept in a aquarium with no heater- 18°C, they breed, swim, aren't sick, they are used to not-so-tropical temperatures.

Endler Liverbearers as you know are tropical. Firebelly newts are not. If you keep them in a cool tank with no heater you might be able to pull this off. I do not think the newt would eat any of the fry and I would worry more about the adults picking on the newt than the other way around.

Another thing to remember is you need a haul out point for the newt so it can come out of the water from time to time and with that being said you will have to low the water level. To be perfectly honest, its not a good idea to mix species. It better to have a separate tank for the newt. If you insist on having small fish, make sure you have the tank setup for the newt and if the fish can live in there then so be it.

I had some feeder guppies with my newt when I first got it and it seemed that my newt never liked to be in the water after a week or two. When I separated them the newt returned to the water. Some people have guppies/cloud minnows with their newts, but for some it doesnt work. Fish being any type of food source is not going to happen with Cynops.

Mitch

I never thought of the fish being a problem for the newt, him being 2-3x larger, but now that you mention it, fish can be pretty iritating, especially in higher numbers.
Concerning the dry part, he'd have anubias leaves sticking out of the water surface/near the surface. Or does he have to have totally dry land (I read they are aquatic, they just need something when they are tired of swimming so they can cling on to near the surface)
And the CFN being totally aquatic (90% aquatic) is the main reason I wanted them...

I already have a African dwarf frog species tank so I could call myself not a total newbie. But than again, a CFN is not a ADF:happy:
 

Jennewt

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Dobar dan. I would recommend that a CFB needs more land area than just the anubias leaves. A small floating island, for example. The temperature of 18C would be OK, although the newt might enjoy being a little colder than that in winter. And I agree that fish, even guppies, can be a bit irritating to newts, depending on the quantity of fish, size of setup, etc. So... what you are thinking might work, but it's not 100% ideal for the newt. Also I am wondering why all the websites recommend keeping endlers so warm. Have you had them for a long time at 18C?
 

xMIDNIGHTx

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I agree with Jen about the leaves. Most aquatic newts need to haul out completely to drier surface from time to time. A small natural cork piece does the job and looks great. The 90% aquatic comment might be true from some species or even individuals but this is not an exact number. My Chinese fire belly spends 60/40 in the water vs on the land. My C.cyanurus (blue tailed fire bellies) are much more water going. Also depending on the age can make the difference on how much time is spent in the water so it is important to provide everything the newt needs.

Remember make the setup FOR the newt and IF the fish can live in there with out problems then it should be alright. My three big concerns were waste (cause fish create more waste), the fish picking on the newt, and the fish getting sick and transfering that two the newt. It wasnt worth the risks for me. I separated the fish and got more newts! :D

Mitch
 

2unyoozhuel

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ok, take it from someone who HAS endlers and firebellies in the same tank, there is no problem whatsoever. There is a risk that the firebelly will eat even the adult endlers if they can catch them. I had 2 endlers mysteriously dissapear over the last few months.

Something else i frequently hear on this site which i TOTALLY disagree with is that newts cannot be kept with other fish. I've had two firebelly newts with a tank full of fish for almost 4 years now with NO problems between fish and newts. (I'll list species at bottom) The fish species are all quite small however so keep that in mind. I've found the newts to be quite entertained by the fish in fact, they'll follow them around and watch them.

My personal advice is not to worry about mixing species, but to make sure, just watch carefully for a few day after a new fish is introduced. Have an extra tank available for a quick transfer. Also make sure the newts is getting enough food, cause they are much slower.

My babies:

2 firebellies
3 endler guppies
3 platy's
2 african dwarf frogs
1 peppered cory
2 female betta's
ghost shrimp
2 staghorn bumblebee snails
1 black neon

ZERO fighting and ZERO diseases in 4 years.
 

Nathan050793

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My babies:

2 firebellies
3 endler guppies
3 platy's
2 african dwarf frogs
1 peppered cory
2 female betta's
ghost shrimp
2 staghorn bumblebee snails
1 black neon

ZERO fighting and ZERO diseases in 4 years.

Just because nothing has happened yet doesn't mean it wont. Most of those fish require temperatures that are uncomfortable for newts, and as a result of keeping them together you are compromising the health of your newts. Species mixing in general is a terrible idea when it involves newts. Please search the forum on this topic as there are countless threads that explain why this is such a bad idea.Please read over this link, and then consider that some of these stories resulted after years of the animals being kept together- http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Mixing_disasters.shtml
 

oregon newt

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There is a difference between surviving and thriving. Your newts may be stressed as well as your fish. Two female bettas should also not be housed together. In fact, bettas should only be houd alone, except for maybe ottos and cories. They're a ticking time bomb. Some other people have kept fish with newts, but I would be reluctant to do it.
 

2unyoozhuel

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Just because nothing has happened yet doesn't mean it wont.
Or maybe because nothing has happened yet, maybe nothing will happen. I've done the research and read that thread you mentioned more than once. But the problem with the theory of you can't mix newts with fish/other species is that problems can happen just as often with the SAME species. For example the only critter which has ever attacked my newt was in fact the other newt. I've personally had more problems within the same species as between different species. Eg. I've had a single guppy which killed 5 other guppies. I've had a molly who would attack my other molly on sight. These same species attacks in my experience, to be much more common. This does not mean that some species are incompatible. As i've shown, I mix species to quite an extent, but i research carefully and very in depth before mixing. Freak accidents are somewhat common in the aquarium business, but that does not mean these are the rules and likely to happen as some people would have you believe.

Will: I've made the bold statement of "zero diseases in four years". stressed fish and newts will become sick or diseased if they are in constant stress. Therefore they obviosly aren't as my success has shown. Sorry but your statement about betta's are false. MALE betta's cannot be housed with other males, or with less than 3 females if the tank is big enough. Female betta's are commonly housed together. :cool:
 

oregon newt

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In regards to female bettas, they can be just as aggressive as males. I have read about alot of people on other threads who have housed female bettas together and ended up with only one in the end. Some have had success with it, especially if the girls were raised together and are in a big tank with many of hides. However, like I said they're a ticking time bomb. They can be fine for years, but then one day, one of the girls can be in a bad mood and BAM! Females are probably commonly housed together because the understanding of the care requirements for the bettas is very low. And as for females with males, this should on be done if trying to breed your bettas, which is serious work. You can expect one or both bettas to be torn up in the process. Last, in response to the zero diseases in four years, I have personally known someone who has kept a goldfish in a bowl for years without any diseases. It has been in constant stress. The signs are there, you just need to know what to look for. Anyways, I hope I didn't come across too hard. I know I have made mistakes before too.:happy: Good luck with your tank. Monitor your animals closely. If there are any problems, have a back up plan ready to go.
 
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2unyoozhuel

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oregon newt,
yeah, all the betta information i agree with you...closely enough anyway. Years ago i had the urge to breed betta's until i read about them. :eek: yikes, the work indeed.

Keeping a goldfish in a little bowl, would obviously by stressed. However the signs of stress are just not there in my tank. (no diseases, no erratic behaviour, no scratching, no listlessness, no moving up and down the glass, etc) I should also mention, that i've moved long distances from home 3 times without any casualties. They are just not stressed.

The point i'm trying to make is that a disturbingly large amount of information stated as "fact" in the aquarium business are just opinions of others from long ago. Many of us are starting to read between the lines, and discover this. In my very strong opinion firebelly newts can be housed with any fish species, as long as the fish is not too big, not small enough to be eaten, and not aggressive enough to attack a defenseless newt. Freak accidents can happen though, with even the most compatible of species.

And gosh no, not harsh at all oregon newt, what are forums for if not for fun healthy debates. I thank you :wacko::happy:
 

Azhael

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Are the firebellies breeding?
That will tell you the difference between wether their are just surviving or thriving.
Also, are you sure they are Cynops orientalis(being the most common firebelly)? Agression in this species is extraordinarily rare.

African dwarf frogs require quite different conditions than newts to fully thrive.
I think the important point regarding mixing species is if it´s worth it. Meaning that our primary goal is providing the BEST housing conditions and overall care for our caudates. Sacrificing some aspects of the animals life (lack of breeding, less than ideal conditions...) for the purpose of having it mixed with other species is not worthy in my opinion. And keeping all those animals together is invariably going to interfere with the ideal conditions in which each species needs to be to trully thrive.
 

Tappers

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It's so much easier being a biotope nerd!

I have red shiners in my map turtle tank and cherry shrimp and white clouds in my bombina orientalis set up because they thrive in the same environmental parameters, having evolved alongside one another.

I would merely make the observation that if you are keeping a temperate species at a constant temperature year-round then you are compromising the animal's natural physiological cycle in some way.

If I can also make a suggestion, some of your fishes are very social and need to be kept in greater numbers (tetra, cory etc) and current population densities will be stressful to these fishes, even if no discernible problems are apparent. After all, it's not like the animals in our care have a choice - they can never leave or purchase their own tankmates!

There is indeed a lot of opinion stated as fact in any aspect of animal keeping but to use an analogy, my aunt smoked three packs a day and didn't die until she was forty - not a success considering she could have doubled that lifespan..
 

oregon newt

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I'm not sure if the map turltes and firebelly toad would work out good. As far as I know, firebellies produce toxins and the map turtle might try to take a bite at it. Some species may live together in the wild and have the same care requirements, but in the wild, they are not confined to such a small place. They do not live side by side all of the time.
 

Tappers

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I'm not sure if the map turltes and firebelly toad would work out good. As far as I know, firebellies produce toxins and the map turtle might try to take a bite at it. Some species may live together in the wild and have the same care requirements, but in the wild, they are not confined to such a small place. They do not live side by side all of the time.

Oh no! They're in two separate set ups! The Maps are in a two meter tank in the animal room with seven shiners and I would never mix them with any 'phibs..
 
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