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axolotl sick - uncycled tank. please help

gish

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First of all, if you are going to tell me I screwed up - please don't. I already know I screwed up :( - I don't need the re-iterating just some help please.

It was my daughter's birthday last week and she has wanted an axolotl for 2 years or so. I finally decided to get her one. This is where my mistake began - I went to a petshop! I know nothing about fish or axolotls and made this very clear to the girl who served me. She sold me a filter (which I later discovered to be too small), a heater (which I later discovered I don't need), some plants, dechlorinator and an axolotl. She advised me to go home and set the tank up first and pick up the axolotl the following day. She didnt mention anything about cycling the tank and as I said - I know nothing about aquariums!:confused:

Everything was fine for the first 2 days but I noticed the axolotl was more lethargic than normal and wasnt eating. A few hours later i nudged him and he didnt move - i thought he was dead, so i went to a proper aquarium this time in search of a replacement. The guy there has been very helpful and refused to sell me another until we discovered why the first one was so sick. He then explained to me about the whole cycle process and I shouldn't have got my axolotl for a few weeks until the bacteria built up in the filter. He suggested I go home and bring in a sample of water. So I did this (and discovered the axolotl was not dead). Just as he expected, the ammonia level was really high - measuring about a 2.0. I also took in the box of the filter I had installed and found out it was way too small for the tank (3ft x 1ft x 1.5ft), so he sold me a bigger filter and explained that we would be starting the whole cycling of the tank once more. He also sold me some 'Prime' and 'cycle'.

I did a 50% water change and after 3 days, took another sample back in - the ammonia is still high and now the nitrates and nitrites are climbing. He explained that with daily 25% water changes, these levels should eventually start dropping.

This poor little axolotl is still living but I really want to make things more comfortable for him. Would it be a bad thing to do 25% water changes twice a day? If so, can I do 40 - 50% water changes twice daily? I know I'm not to touch the new filter.

How long will the axolotl be able to withstand these horrid conditions? I have spent $200 trying to help this little guy and would hate to see him die. He hasnt eaten in 9 days. His tail was badly curved but has straightened out a little bit. I heard curved tails indicate stress.

Please help.
 

big a little a

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Hi Gish

I am going to just paste and copy Ray's instruction on fridging - this will severely increase your axies chances.

Set your fridge to about 4-5 degree celsius.
- Put your axie in a container large enough to allow it to stretch its limbs and tail comfortably.
- Fill with fresh dechlorinated water enough to submerge it but not allowing it to float.
- Cover with a lid. You can use a perforated lid or netting to prevent it jumping out.
- Use a tea towel to cover it to keep the environment dark.
- Perform 100% water changes daily with clean dechlorinated water.
- You can pre prepare bottles of water in the fridge.
- Continue to offer a variety of nutritious food daily. Try live wriggly food like blackworms, bloodworms, earthworms. You can also try the usual pellet, offer treats of shrimp and fish etc. Otherwise you can also blend everything in a food processor and then roll the resultant mash into a pea sized ball to try offer your axie. Remove uneaten food within 20 min.


And I will grab someone from chat to have a look for you. Other things I would add is to make sure you have a bottle of declorinated water in the fridge, so there is no sudden temp changes when you change the water. And don't pick him up with your hands to change his water. You can dechlorinate tap water by leaving it to stand a couple of days without a lid (the chlorine evaporrates). But I am just reciting things from other threads, so will get someone else to look at this.


Zoe x
 

big a little a

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And to be honest, thousands of people get pets that they aren't familiar with and put their faith in the worker in the shop - they're in a position of trust and the person who has really screwed up is the silly girl who sold him to you and who clearly hasn't given a **** about the animals she's selling, but more on how to make quick money.

I dread to think how they are keeping the axies in the shop :(
 
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Jacquie

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Hi Gish,

Fridging will certainly help the axolotl relax and recuperate. But it will not encourage the axolotl to eat as the metabolism is slowed right down.

As it sounds as if your axie is not coping with the stress of cycling, I would cycle the tank by the 'fishless' method and keep your axie in an alternate temporary home such as a plastic tub or bucket while the tank is cycling.

While living in a bucket/tub, the axolotl will need the water changed 100% each day with fresh dechlorinated water. Ensure that the tub has a secure lid, axies can and do jump. Don't worry, the axie will be perfectly happy living in a tub of clean cool water :happy:.

If there is nowhere cool to keep the axolotl while in a tub, you can use the fridge with the procedure Zoe has outlined above.

The fishless method of cycling is the safest way to cycle a tank as it uses dead matter as an ammonia source rather than living creatures. The procedure for fishless cycling can be found here: http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/cyclingEDK.shtml

While stressed the axolotl will not eat. While relaxing in still water that is clean, secure and cool, the axolotl should start to eat again.

Cycling an aquarium can take one to three months to complete.

Cycling with a live animal is a balancing act, on the one hand the bacteria needs the ammonia to feed upon and on the other the ammonia level must be dilluted to an acceptable level for the axolotl living in the water while the tank is in the process of cycling.

While the axie is relaxing in a tub, you can read through this detailed but easy to read guide on the care of your new friend http://www.axolotl.org/ and many support articles on an acceptable diet for your axolotl, ideal filters, and further water quality information can be found in Caudate Culture section: http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/articles.shtml.

If you have any queries or concerns, please feel free to ask - unlike our axies we don't bite.

And, welcome to the forum!
 

gish

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Thanks for the advice both of you. I am curious about the whole "fridging" technique. How long should I keep him in the fridge for? I know now that cycling a tank doesn't happen overnight so does he just stay in the fridge for a couple of weeks or is that too long? Now obviously, I would need to change the water in his fridge container too wouldn't I? Wouldn't the ammonia be stronger in a small container compared to the 100litre tank (its only filled to 80 litres) he has now? He is the only animal in the tank at the moment so surely his waste couldnt be producing that much ammonia could it? How do they survive in a fridge? If I did go ahead with the fridge thing - would I need to put in a few ice packs to his large tank to cool it down to a similar temperature before putting him back in so the water temp change isnt too extreme on him?

I'm sorry if I am asking really stupid questions. I was told that these guys were really simple to look after. Boy was I misinformed!

I hope you dont lose your patience with me - I would one day like to be the one handing out advice :p
 

Bellabelloo

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Your questions are from stupid...keep on asking!
You can keep your axy in the fridge as long as you like...I have read of one that has permanantly resided in a salad drawer!!. You will need to change the water while there daily, I would prepare dechlorinated bottles of water in advance and keep them in the fridge...that way the temps will be similar for the water change. Potentially keeping him in the fridge gives him chance to de-stress and you time to cycle his tank.
You wont need to cool his tank when you return him, I would just float his fridge container in his tank so that the change in temperature wont shock him .
Once you have your tank cycled you probably wont have any problems.

Thanks for the advice both of you. I am curious about the whole "fridging" technique. How long should I keep him in the fridge for? I know now that cycling a tank doesn't happen overnight so does he just stay in the fridge for a couple of weeks or is that too long? Now obviously, I would need to change the water in his fridge container too wouldn't I? Wouldn't the ammonia be stronger in a small container compared to the 100litre tank (its only filled to 80 litres) he has now? He is the only animal in the tank at the moment so surely his waste couldnt be producing that much ammonia could it? How do they survive in a fridge? If I did go ahead with the fridge thing - would I need to put in a few ice packs to his large tank to cool it down to a similar temperature before putting him back in so the water temp change isnt too extreme on him?

I'm sorry if I am asking really stupid questions. I was told that these guys were really simple to look after. Boy was I misinformed!

I hope you dont lose your patience with me - I would one day like to be the one handing out advice :p
 

Abrahm

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I'm sorry if I am asking really stupid questions. I was told that these guys were really simple to look after. Boy was I misinformed!

I hope you dont lose your patience with me - I would one day like to be the one handing out advice :p

You're certainly not asking stupid questions! I am sorry to tell you there is almost no such thing as an easy to care for animal. All animals require some degree of specialized care, it all depends upon what you think is simple!

What I am most concerned about is the combination of your axolotl not eating and the cycling process happening at the same time. Did the pet store say when this animal last ate? Did they feed the animal in front of you? This is usually a good thing to do at a pet store when buying an animal. Try live foods like earthworms, etc as mentioned above to try and get your axolotl eating.

Do you know if your local water municipality treats their water with chlorine or chloramines? Or do you have a well? You can usually call your water treatment plant to find out how they treat their water. Chloramines when they are used will often register as ammonia to tests and may be artificially elevating your ammonia levels.

If you can get your axolotl to eat regularly, I think leaving the axolotl in the big tank and doing daily 25% water changes should be sufficient, but that is a lot of work! If you go this route, think about buying an ammonia test (the kind where you mix chemical with water, not dip strips) and test the tank water regularily and doing water changes when the ammonia goes over the lowest non-zero reading. If your axolotl is otherwise healthy, the stress from the water quality shouldn't be too hard to overcome, but since your animal isn't eating he may not be healthy enough for that additional stress.

And to be honest, thousands of people get pets that they aren't familiar with and put their faith in the worker in the shop - they're in a position of trust and the person who has really screwed up is the silly girl who sold him to you and who clearly hasn't given a **** about the animals she's selling, but more on how to make quick money.

I woudln't just blame the pet store workers. Many of them are just trying to make money and they really like animals but they don't know anything about fish, axolotls or hamsters. They believe what the pet store owner/corporation tells them and often that information is bad.
 

gish

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I just want to say thankyou to everyone for their helpful advice. I ended up keeping Errol in the tank and I am doing 40% water changes everyday. I also went to a very nice aquarium where all the animals look healthy and bought some live plants in the hope that this will help with getting the good bacteria in my filter.

Errol is still alive, moving around a bit more lately and his eyes seem clearer. His tail is straightening out and he ate one piece of fresh chicken breast today! I know it is not much but it is a start to recovery or so i believe.

Fingers crossed anyways.:eek:
 

blueberlin

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It's always great to hear about an axolotl recovering - thank you for updating. Best of luck to the both of you.

-Eva
 

gish

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Yeah, surprisingly he is still alive so we must be doing something right. I'm sure he is eating athough i have only seen him eat once, but I put his bloodworms in and in 10 minutes - quite a few are gone.

These would have to be the most strangest creatures I have ever seen. At least once a week I am addament that he has died. Like today he was in the tank with his head right down resting in the middle of a plant with his tail half out of the water and his four legs straight out. Thought he was dead so i nudged him, then he just moved with my movement as if he was dead and he turned a bit with his stomach in the air and floated to the top, still hadn't moved his legs or anything. Told my daughter that he passed away, she started crying - told my husband and he came in to remove Errol from the tank and guess what? He swam away all crazy like. hahaha.

What else can I feed him? I'm thinking of trying something live like worms. My parents own a worm farm and I know for a fact that there are no chemicals - its all natural. The worms they breed end up in pet shops and tackle shops anyway so do you think i should try him on these? I know he hates the pellets - He hasn't eaten a single one.

But thanks a bunch for asking how he is. We all think he is stupid and great at the same time! Sorry if i offend anyone.
 

gish

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Just thought I would update and let you all know our axolotl passed away yesterday :shocked:. Kinda wasn't expecting it as we thought we had overcome our major problems. Don't really know what he died of. The only thing I can think of is that the ammonia poisoning he suffered from a few weeks ago affected his kidneys or something and it all finally caught up with him.

We are going to get the water tested again today just to see if something has unbalanced majorly before we look at what our next step should be (new axolotl or fish or nothing).

Thankyou for all of your advice - it has been much appreciated.
 
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