Close to morphing time...

SludgeMunkey

SludgeMunkey

New member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
2,299
Reaction score
79
Points
0
Location
Bellevue, Nebraska
Country
United States
Display Name
Johnny O. Farnen
So my Cynops ensicauda popei are very near to morphing...I think.

(Forgive me, I am relatively new to species that go terrestrial)

While I have read tons about them, I am unclear on how to provide "land" for them at this stage.

They are about 2 inches long, give or take, and their gills are getting significantly smaller. I have noticed them swimming rapidly to the surface to take a gulp of air. (Not even sure if that is normal for this species) The largest of the colony tend to hang out very close to the surface on the java moss I have in their tanks.

Should I just add a floating island for now or should I lower the water level enough that the moss breaks the surface and provide a floating island? Or, should I go ahead and move them to a tank with a solid terrestrial section?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
AW: Close to morphing time...

A floating island e.g. a piece of cork bark or something similar will be sufficient. The "morphs" you find on top of the bark may be transferred to a more terrestrial setup. Make sure however, that your container is escape-proof already at this stage, as they will occasionally leave the water (and the container at worst) before going permanently terrestrial.
 
Thanks for clarifying the situation for me!

Today, I completed transferring the larvae to new tanks based on size. (Was getting a bit crowded in the original rearing tank).

The largest and closest to morphing have cork bark islands in place.

The new rearing tanks I built have well ventilated, escape-proof covers installed.
 
Last edited:
If they are swimming in the surface, then they are trying to get out of water.
Don´t keep advanced larvae without a terrestrial area because they can easily drown.
If the gills are being reabsorved, they are gulping air and the belly has at least partially the adult colours, then it´s time to be terrestrial.
Best of lucks mate, if these are anything like orientalis, be prepared for a bit of a headache hehe.
A couple of pics wouldn´t hurt...:p
 
I second the pics....I have 6 terrestrial juvies and would like to see the stage before they morph...
 
Re: Close to morphing time...Now With Pictures!

Pictures Pictures Pictures!

All these are from the same batch of eggs, hatched the second week of March.

3483883236_9309f0e69a.jpg

Feeding time in the mid-sized larvae tank, shown about twice actual size.

3483887942_9565689dfe.jpg


Runts! Actual length <----->
(Saved from their brethren and now in their own tank demolishing brine shrimp napuli...poor skinny little buggers....)

3483884490_10b6061892.jpg


These are two of the 13 that I suspect are getting ready to morph. Actual length: <---------->
(Note: the size of the penny in the picture is distorted by the bottom of the glass dish and is not in the water with the larvae.)

3483894758_60f496ff64.jpg


Ventral sides of the same two in the previous picture. Please keep in mind that is not "brine shrimp orange". These fellows have been feeding on nothing but Daphnia and frozen bloodworms for about 2.5 weeks. I find it very interesting that the belly orange starts as a small spot at the throat and appears to spread out. Also note, that it is not an issue of lighting, the right hand animal really is that color black and his spot is much smaller with "blurred" edges.


From looking at pictures of other larvae and pre-morphs, I wonder if they may have more time to go. The gills are smaller than their siblings and their bellies have actual orange, but their tails are still very flat and larval. And yet, these two in particular hang out near the surface on Java Moss and swim up to take gulps.
 
Last edited:
I´d say they definitely have some time to go.
Probably a few weeks.
The belly has not started to colour up. What you see is not really adult coloration, i think it´s just their stomachs. When you can clearly see the limits of the red belly, and the black spots, then that´s a sign. Being popei, you should also be able to see some dorsal coloration before morphing.
Also the legs are still rather thin, and the fin is high.....so they still have some growing to do.
They are looking very good though, good job!
 
When legs thicken and fin starts getting lower I'd move them ASAP to a shallow container with java moss, and a small island.

Those that climb onto an island can then be moved to a terrestrial setup. Be ready to for feeding lots of little foods. Raising these guys is quite time consuming, but they are very cute. :)

I haven't had much luck with runts myself...they tend to do poorly after morphing.
 
Ahhh...well that is good to know. Here those transparent ventral sides had me all fired up!

It is like starting from scratch for me with these guys for me...I have read so many horror stories of morphing time that I am watching them like a hawk.:p Almost to the point of paranoia...


I am a bit worried about the gulping by the larger ones. Could this be a reaction to the slightly crowded conditions in the original tank? Water chemistry is nominal, temp is 70F.
 
I´d say gulping is absolutely normal for the very simple reason that they are developing lungs.
however if you see they do it an awful lot, it might mean that oxygen is low.

Horror stories about morphing are there just to prevent people, to let them know what can happen. Healthy, strong ones do great, and are very easy to feed....however there´s always the runts and the ones that do very poorly or die soon after morphing for no apparent reason. So expect some to grow fast, others to grow painfully slow, and others to die, it´s normal and it happens to everyone.
 
Call me crazy, but today when I returned home from work and turned on the lights in my critter room, I had quite the shock.

90% of the C.e. popei larvae have changed color!

From reading around the forums here, I understand that they tend to vary a bit in color at this stage, from light almost yellow to deep dark black. I thought it may be interesting to separate them by color in addition to size, as it might provide some interesting results in future breeding.
yet today, when I turned on the lights to do tank cleaning....almost all of the deep black and medium colored larvae had "transformed" into the light almost yellow color scheme!

Are these animals photo-reactive at this stage as a defense mechanism?

At first I suspected a water chemistry shift, but it was in all 6 rearing tanks. I tested water anyway, and the results were the same as the previous weeks, all results in the nominal water quality range. No temperature shift, no ammonia spike, no pH drop.

The only thing that has changed is that night before last, my lighting timer had failed while I was at work, so the little guys had a full 24 hours plus of light.

Any insights?
3491321870_4ee6d8c3b6.jpg


These larvae are in the same tank as the first picture in my previous post.

(Forgive the mess, I discovered this change right as I was to begin tank cleaning)
 
I´ve seen it happen to my animals, and i´ve heard of other people with the same experience. I´m unsure as to what exactly triggers this, but i also suspect it´s light. Temps might also have an effect.
It´s very unlikely that any of the larvae will actually have a "weird" coloration....the vast majority develop the normal coloration a few days/weeks after morphing, no matter how clear they looked before. There are exceptions though...
 
Working with a species new to me is so much fun.

Seems like every day these little guys amaze me.

I have seen a reaction to light in Hyla cinerea. Bright green at night, brown during the day, but I never expected anything even vaugley like this with caudates.


Thank you all for the information!
 
AW: Close to morphing time...

This is quite normal for C.e.p.-larvae :D. Different lights (and obviously darkness :cool:) and different container bottoms/substrates influence the colour (pigment cells) of the larvae. The colour of larvae may also change without any obvious reasons (don't ask me, I guess this is what they call "biology" :confused:).
For the development of the adult colour patterns you'll have to wait well till after metamorphosis.

Some interesting info on the development of pigment cell patterns in caudate embryos (genus Taricha) can be found here (pdf-download):

http://dev.biologists.org/cgi/reprint/97/1/141
 
Very, very interesting reading! Thank you for the link!

It makes me wonder if the perceived change is due to a pigmentation migration in C.e. popei, or if it is more along the lines of the cell "constriction" seen in Old World Chameleons. Given the speed of change that I witnessed today, the visible evidence supports the latter over the former. What I would give for some scanning electron microscope access!

On an additional note, in the few hours since the post, those that were of the dark color have in fact returned to that ink black. The medium shaded ones are once again their original color.
 
Last edited:
I noticed my cynops larvae stay dark when they have plenty of cover, but when I keep them in a bare, or lightly planted tank they lighten up. That isn't necessarily why yours changed, but a possibility to think about.
 
Good luck!

Mine doesn't eat any at all, and its anatomy has changed, its tail fin has been reabsorbed but it still has gills.

I have put some rocks whenever he wants to go out.
 
Last edited:
My first Cynops morphed today when I came home from work! It was so exciting to watch his gills go in right in front of me! good job with yours!
 
Just a quick update:

I started these guys on frozen mysis shrimp yesterday with success. Growth has slowed a bit, however the largest ones are starting to show thickening of the legs and reduction of the caudal (?) fin. Not much on belly color developing yet.

I am going to resort them by size, as some have grown considerably since the last split, and others are lagging behind.

I am sad to report the runts did not fare well, and were culled after they started showing serious malformation. Thankfully, this was only 9 out of 46 animals.

I will not bother posting pictures yet, as there is not much noticeable change from the last ones.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
General chit-chat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
  • Shane douglas:
    with axolotls would I basically have to keep buying and buying new axolotls to prevent inbred breeding which costs a lot of money??
     +1
    Unlike
  • Thorninmyside:
    Not necessarily but if you’re wanting to continue to grow your breeding capacity then yes. Breeding axolotls isn’t a cheap hobby nor is it a get rich quick scheme. It costs a lot of money and time and deditcation
     +1
    Unlike
  • stanleyc:
    @Thorninmyside, I Lauren chen
     +1
    Unlike
  • Clareclare:
    Would Chinese fire belly newts be more or less inclined towards an aquatic eft set up versus Japanese . I'm raising them and have abandoned the terrarium at about 5 months old and switched to the aquatic setups you describe. I'm wondering if I could do this as soon as they morph?
     +1
    Unlike
    Clareclare: Would Chinese fire belly newts be more or less inclined towards an aquatic eft set up versus... +1
    Back
    Top