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new aquarium disaster . . . sick axolotl !!

eskee

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So we've upgraded Sharky and George's house from a tiny 25 litre tank to a nice and roomy 160 litre job. To move them in, I simply poured in all their existing well cycled tank water (plus about 5 liters fresh water on top) with their existing filter and all their plants. I let them get over the shock for a few days then began to add dechlorinated tap water, one bucket a day until the aquarium was pretty much full...Great! On a trip to the local aquarium, my girlfriend spotted a loverly white axolotl and insisted he'd go great with the other two wild type axies. Sharky and George had been doing fine for about a month by this time, and we had the space, so we decided to bring him home.

This is where it all went wrong. His first night was fine, he seemed to settle in fine. He was slightly more skittish than the other two but that's to be expected at first right? The next day during feeding time however George (the smallest of the three) mistook one of newly named Casper's front legs for a juicy worm and had a bit of a nibble! It didn't go down well with Casper who took off for cover and didn't come out again! Sharky and George just carried on eating.

The next day, I came back to find the curtain wide open with the sun shining directly onto the tank, the temperature at 25/26 degrees celcius and Casper floating tail end up...Disaster! I promptly pulled the curtains and put some water bottles in and the temperature came back down to 20 overnight. Casper however started acting strange, he started gagging as if he were throwing up and he was still floating. I moved him into a plastic box on the floor and kept him cool with just a few inches of water (so he could keep his feet on the floor) and some sand and pond weed for cover. He was still gagging alot and started secreting a slimey gooey mess out of his vent with black bits in!
DSCF0123.jpg


...any ideas what it is?

Then I noticed his leg which got bitten had red streaks and what looked like white mucus all over it. ..also a few white spots apeared on his tail!

DSCF0127-1.jpg


DSCF0125-1.jpg


over the next few days it gradually got worse and he hadn't eaten at all!

He's been in the fridge for the last two days but the mucusy mess is still getting worse. I'm suspecting some sort of fungus but I really don't know what I'm dealing with. What should I do next? I hear alot of people talking about salt baths, will this help? If so, what king of salt do I use and what is the procedure?

Oh and I bought a water test kit and the water quality is terrible! The nitrite and nitrates are both very high. Although the ph is about 7.5/8 ish the ammonia is zero. I've performed a 30% water change and added some of this stuff at the advise of the aquarium center.

DSCF0151.jpg


Sharky and George however are showing no signs of upset, just mooching about and eating like normal.

Is there anything I should have done? What should I do next?
 
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Kerry1968

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My first thought when reading your post was 'Oh no, you didn't quarantine the new axolotl.'

I'm not sure what the white lumps are, but the mucus stuff in the picture looks like spermatophores. Though I've never heard of any with black spots in them.

I would only perform salt baths if you are sure he has fungus, it is not a comfortable procedure for axolotls to go through.

I'm hoping someone with more knowledge will jump in, but in the short term, I'm sure fridging is the best option. Also keep a close eye on the other two axies in case whatever he has got is contagious and has been passed onto them.
 

eskee

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Yeah of course you're absolutely correct, I realise now how important quarantine is for new animals. Well you learn by your mistakes I suppose. I just hope the other two dont fall ill because of my over eagerness.

The aquarium has been dosed with aqualibrium and Casper is hanging out in the fridge until I get some form of action plan. I'll try to post some pictures soon as I can.

Dan
 
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Clairey Beary

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Hi there Eskee, I agree with Kerry, they do suspiciously look alot like spermatophores. Do you have a side-on picture of them? His cloaca looks very swollen too which I'm pretty certain happens when laying spermatophores.

I would keep him fridged and totally agree with Kerry that you should only give the salt baths if you are definately sure it is fungus. Do you have any closer pics of the leg so we can see whether it is fungus or not? It could just be loose skin hanging off.

Claire
 

eskee

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Oh dear...he's getting worse! Fridge doesn't seem to be slowing it down. He's now got a gooey furry kind of mass around two of his gills.

DSCF0158.jpg


This picture shows the mucus on his body:

DSCF0153.jpg


DSCF0155.jpg


He's in a real bad way. I'm worried that he's too far gone now?

Here's the best shot of his leg without disturbing him again.

DSCF0154-1.jpg



Thanks for the speedy replies :) I think I'm going to need all the help I can get on this one.

As for the spermatophores that's the only in focus shot I have. I compared it to some photos online and I'm pretty sure they're the same, although the first two released definately had black globules inside. At first I thought perhaps 'he' wasn't a 'he' after all and laying eggs, but they bore almost no resemblance to photos online.

I take your advise on saltbaths and steer clear.

Dan
 
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ferret_corner

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I hope someone who knows better chimes in soon - but keep him fridged.

I'm pretty sure the furry stuff around his gills is fungus - probably from stress.

If you search axolotl.org - there are some treatment options there, tea baths and salt baths. Tea baths being the least harsh.

You've tried so hard to get things just right - I hope you find a solution soon!

http://www.axolotl.org/health.htm
 

Clairey Beary

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That looks very much like fungus to me. I would continue with salt baths indefinately. I think the recommendation is 2 times a day. But the salt water musn't be too salty. I have found this link on the axolotl.org website for you. I agree that it may have been caused by a combination of both the stress of being bitten by the other axie and the stress of laying the spermatophores.

http://www.axolotl.org/health.htm

Further down the bottom of the page is gives you correct measurments of salt to use etc. Keep giving him these until the fungus has disappeared and once gone give 1-2 more just to make sure it has definately gone. Be careful not to keep the axie in the salt water for too long as it will start to burn his skin.

Also make sure you are changing his water daily with de-chlorinted water that you have kept in the fridge at the same temp.

I hope all goes well, please keep us updated daily if possible.

Claire.
 

eskee

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Great. I read through the entire website earlier today but somehow managed to miss that section!

So table salt is okay afterall. I'm thinking it's barely any good for my chips, let alone a sick axolotl.

I'm on it now.

Cheers

dan
 
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eskee

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Right, that's 1 bath down - 5 tsp of salt in 2 liters of his fridged water for 13 minutes.

Thank you guys so much for your quick, kind and enthusiastic responses. I'll keep you all updated.

Oh...here's a picture of the injury that seems to have started it all (front left):

DSCF0160.jpg
 
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Vidofner

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He's definatly stressed. Both the gills are bent forward and his tailtip is curled... clear indications.
Hope the salt baths works man, he really doesn't look to good. How is his behavior?
 

Darkmaverick

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Hi Eskee,

I have a few differentials for your case.

Firstly, there is evidence of fungal infection notably around the gills. A fungal infection is normally an opportunistic infection secondary to an underlying pathology. Salt baths will be useful to help control fungal infections however you would have to be careful with the salt concentration and the length of time of bath. Excessive or prolonged soaking can further damage the skin, so can excessively concentrated salt solutions. We still need to identify the primary cause of illness.

The wound around the forelimb (when bitten) shows signs of inflammation (appears to be hyperaemic or reddish due to increased blood circulation). There may be some deep tissue damage to the arm and depending on the extent of trauma may either resolve uneventfully (heal over time) or can become gangrenous with necrotic tissue (tissues die off due to lack of blood or nerve supply etc). Normally a severely damaged limb will no longer be mobile (axie can't move that limb and drags it around) and will soon be coated with fungus. The best thing to watch out for is to see if the axie still has control over that limb (whether it can still move normally) and whether the limb has swelling or discharge over time.

There is also evidence of stress in view of the curled tail tip and forward facing gills.

Best thing to do is to fridge your axie and ensure the water parameters are top notch. This is to prevent further infection. Do continue to offer good quality nutritious food like earthworms, blackworms etc. Good nutrition promotes healing.

The gagging and excretion of the slimy mucus material is indicative of pathology in the alimentary tract. This could be triggered by poor environmental factors (poor water parameters), feeding decomposing food, food that contains chemicals or contaminated, or partial blockage of some sorts (constipation/ indigestion). In my opinion, the mucus mass resembles partially digested food that has undergone a degree of decomposition (fungus), although i guess it could be spermatophores. Sometimes an infection in the mouth can start of with gagging and open mouth. Complications of alimentary tract disorders are sepsis and possible auto-immune disorder.

Sepsis/scepticaemia is basically blood poisoning due to bacteria. This is a systemic condition and can cause multiple organ problems. Sepsis can originate from a breach in the intestinal walls (alimentary tract) or even the arm wound. The best treatment again is fridging for the time being until you bring it to a vet.

Due to the high nitrite levels in the tank. There is a possibility there is a certain level of nitrite poisoning, causing direct chemical trauma to the skin. Different axies have different susceptibility and hence have different response even though they are kept in the same tank. Chemical trauma can result in the nodular growths all over the axie's body. These could be active sites of inflammation (much like a rash). Best thing is to monitor water parameters regular and perform frequent water changes to keep the parameters ideal.

The skin lesions could also be bacterial infection. If there is a sepsis, chances are that there are bacteria coursing through the blood vessels. Bacteria can lodge in small capillaries in distant body sites all over the body. These regions become the nidus for bacteria to colonise, proliferate and cause a microabscess. If there are pus/dischage building up, the result is a lesion on the skin. Veterinary intervention would be necessary as systemic antibiotics are necessary to treat this.

Another possibility is that your axie has an auto-immune reaction. This is much like hives. Something that the axie has been exposed to (water condition, food, infection etc.) cause its body to mount an overt immune response, resulting in a rash like urticaria (hives).

In summary, fridge your axie, make sure water conditions are good, good nutrition, low stress environment, consider salt baths and make an appointment with your vet.

Regards.
 

eskee

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Thank you all for your advice. Casper doesn't seem to be improving. He's still in the fridge, water changes twice daily, saltbaths morning and evening (5 tsp per 2litres for 13mins). He doesn't seem slightest bit interested in food, not even nice juicy earthworms. We're looking for a vet who is comfortable dealing with axolotls, we'll book him in straight away!

As for Sharky and George, they're eating fine and showing no signs of stress. Twice daily mass water changes 40% ish. I will do another test this afternoon and let you know the results.

Dan
 
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SUZY

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Ray !
I sure am glad that you made it. I was reading this post and I almost felt compelled to go and hunt you down. I was fealing sad and scared at the same time my self. I sure hope that casper gets better. Dan my thoughts and prayers are with you, and your Casper. Keep on posting. We need a good ending here !!!
 

eskee

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sorry guys he didn't make it . . . poor guy seemed to take bad turn last night, he couldn't keep his balance and started floating again. . . when i went to give him a saltbath this moring he had gone . . . such a shame he didnt get a chance to settle in with the other two . . . although the whole experience has made a much more knowledgeable and on the whole 'less ignorant' axie keeper.

I shall certainly be paying infinately more attention to sharky and george's living conditions. i have stopped the mass water changes, changing about 30% once a day (does this still sound too much ??) most poeple seem to recommend 20% but The nitrite and nitrate levels are still a little high (considering i've perormed four 40% water changes in the last two days). Does that sound right ? or do you think there could be another problem in the aquarium ?? with thouse kind of water changes in that short time, i would have thought the existing nitrite rich water to be so dilute . . . anyway ive sifted through every inch of substrate (sand in our case) for dead plant material and any traces of uneaten food. ammonia levels are still ZERO despite the water being slightly alkali at the moment (about 7.5/8 ish).
sharky ang george are still fairly small . . . about 6/7" I cant see them producing that much waste being fed once a day in a 160L aqaurium . . . also the presence of nitrates seggests the bacteria are doing their job to some extent right ?? what do you guys think ??
 

ianclick

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Sorry to hear about your loss eskee,

30% water changes would be the most I would reccommend, It sounds like you are doing all the right things. What are your nitrite and nitrate levels?
 

Darkmaverick

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My condolences Eskee. It has been a learning experience for everyone and Casper's death is not in vain. Don't feel too down, you did well.

Hugs
 

SUZY

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I am so sorry as well. I was so hoping for better things.
You did all that you could.
 

Gothica Lily

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Hi Eskee,

Look, I'm new to axolotls, but think the fact that your animal didn't eat didn't help him much. Although I have to say your efforts have been fantastic! You sure tried your best. I was half expecting for Casper to get some willing to eat as I read your story.

I have been looking after a lot of young/sick animals (birds, cats, rats, mice and others) and I learnt that it is best to know how to force feed them good quality food in smaller doses regularly when they are not well. I had a tiny baby swallow who survived because I found a way to feed her. But I also read here that axolotls are very tender, so just find out how how you can feed a sick one should you need it. I hold mine all the time, - there should be a way to provide them gently with some food so they don't get too weak. Don't feed too much either, if you do thta, though... Ask the founders of this site, they are great!

Sorry for your loss, friend. But you can still learn the best from this lesson for Casper and other axies. You'll be okay soon. Just do your best as you always did.
 
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