Question: Feeding LIVE bloodworms

Is this feasable? I know they're only small but would the axie successfully hunt them down and eat them? I'm thinking along the lines that it will stimulate his mind and offer a bit of fun too.

Any suggestions are welcome!!!

Hi Mike,

You can feed live bloodworms. They are much more nutritious live. You might consider feeding the axie in a separate basin/container small enough to let the axie find the food.

On a separate note, it is difficult to find live bloodworms. They normally come in frozen blister packs or gel form. You would need quite a lot of them to make a proper meal. A few individual scattered ones might not be consumed or sufficient in terms of diet.

Cheers.

Hi!

The local aquatics centre sell them by the bag, but I see what you mean in terms of that it would take a long time and a lot of effort to feed a sufficient amount.

Thanks!

Mike.

For larvae and juveniles this would be outstanding. Adults will most likely ignore them given the size of these animals and the fact they tend not to hang out in a easy to gulp mass like blackworms.

Darkmaverick said:

You can feed live bloodworms. They are much more nutritious live.

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Hi Darkmaverick, Do you have any figures to support this? I'm just wondering what is lost nutritionally during the freezing process.

flan123 said:

Hi!

The local aquatics centre sell them by the bag, but I see what you mean in terms of that it would take a long time and a lot of effort to feed a sufficient amount.

Thanks!

Mike.

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A live bag usually contains around the same amount as one frozen block from a blister-pack. I use live for grown on hatchlings - then mix in some frozen as they get older. ...live is a lot more expensive in comparison.

Hi Philbaker,

Yeah I can imagine that.

Just a thought!

Mike.

One thing to remember is that bloodworms will turn into midge flies after a period of time....I have no idea how long a period that is though....

x

SludgeMunkey said:

For larvae and juveniles this would be outstanding. Adults will most likely ignore them given the size of these animals and the fact they tend not to hang out in a easy to gulp mass like blackworms.

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Apologies if this slightly diverts the topic of the thread away from axolotls...
Does anyone know if Cynops larvae take to live bloodworm?
I've tried frozen, they don't seem interested. Trying to add a bit more variation to their diet.
Or maybe it's just because I get sick of untangling tubifex twice a day

Hi Mark,

Live worms have a high water content which is essential for the distribution of water-soluble vitamins and minerals as well as for cellular activity such as protein enzymes.

Live worms also carry a certain amount of saprophytic (environmental) microbes. For animals that consume the worms, the saprophytic organisms actually constitute the normal microflora in their alimentary tract. There is a symbiotic relationship between these microorganisms and the host. Some of these microorganisms help manufacture certain trace minerals and also aid in the immunity within the gut by competitively vying to colonise the alimentary tract against opportunistic/pathogenic microbes. Thus animals evolved to feed on live food tend to have the same gut flora found in their prey.

Freeze-drying, or lyophilization, is the sublimation/removal of water content from frozen food. The dehydration occurs under a vacuum, with the product solidly frozen during the process. Although this technique preserves cellular integrity better compared to other preservation methods such as drying, irradiation or heat treatment, there are two steps involved - the deep freezing (-50 degree celsius) and the sublimation, which can affect the nutritional content of the food.

Live cells, particularly mammalian cells can become lysed by the ice crystals formed during the freezing process. Hence in laboratories dealing with live cells and cryopreservation, glycerol is needed to help protect the cells against freeze damage. As such, some proteins and enzymes in the worms can become damaged in this process.

Secondly, the sublimation stage is essentially rapid dessication. The removal of water content will remove some dissolved water soluble vitamins and minerals, although some fat soluble vitamins will be retained. Volatile compounds such as as volatile fatty acids (acetate, proprionate, butyrate) can also be removed in this process.

Thirdly, the process prevents enzymatic and bacterial activity (hence preserve the food). Some enzymes will be lost in this process. The absence of any live bacteria means that consumption of this food type will not supplment the gut with the microflora. (humans sometimes too supplement with probiotics like yogurt etc.)

That said, freeze dried products do comparatively retain more nutrition compared to other preserved food types due to the less heat applied during the processing which can denature heat sensitive proteins. Fresh produce/food types are always the best option nutrition wise compare to preserved food.

I am sorry i do not have papers specifically contrasting the nutritional content of live versus freeze-dried worms. I extrapolate a lot of the concepts from veterinary nutrition literature.

Cheers

To me the main problem with feeding frozen aquatic insect larvae over feeding live is that you rupture the hemocoel, thus allowing the body fluids to escape into the water as soon as they being to thaw. That's much of the reason why bloodworms lose their colouration not long after thawing, and why they produce red water when they are thawed.

Oh and I should say that the same goes for any arthropod - including Daphnia and Brineshrimp. In the case of smaller animals and animals with lots of body surfaces, the surface area to volume ratio is increased, leading to a much more rapid loss of fluids on thawing and that is why Daphnia and Brineshrimp tend to stink up the place very quickly when compared to bloodworms.

I agree with John that frozen food tend to lose their body fluids after thawing, particularly with bloodworms, hence again reinforcing that fresh live food is still the most nutritious.

However, i think Mark was interested in finding out the nutritional difference between freeze-dried worms (ie tubifex worms in a can) and live worms.

Apologies, I wasn’t clear. I was talking about frozen bloodworm sold in blister packs, not freeze dried bloodworm in a can.

My question really should have been:- if you take a fully intact bloodworm that’s been frozen and then thawed (some do make it through the process unscathed) and compared it’s nutritional value with a live bloodworm which hadn’t been frozen what would be the difference? What is lost during the freezing/thawing process?

Hi Mark,

Freeze/thaw will definitely cause cellular damage to mammalian cells. Hence some proteins and enzymes will definitely be lost. The crude protein content should be lower if you compare live versus freeze-thawed.

In addition, as John pointed out, loss of fluids as a result of hemocoel rupture (again due to ice crystals damaging cell structure), will also cause soluble nutrients (vitamins and minerals, some electrolytes) contained in the fluids to leak out before they reach the axie's belly.

Cheers.

Mark said:

What is lost during the freezing/thawing process?

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Aside from what I said before, many biological molecules don't last a long time (this is the case for some vitamins as well as a pile of other molecules) because when the animal dies it doesn't maintain the conditions in its cells to renew and support these molecules. As a result, nutritional value falls. I don't have a hard number for this and I don't think you'll find many - it would vary depending on conditions and the organism.