Continually escalating situations :S

About a month ago I noticed my Axolotl had a white fungus growing on its gills. I removed it and placed it in a quarentine tank and began treating it with baths in tap water (as opposed to salt water baths as in this case the symptoms seemed to be more like Saprolegnia). I checked the tanks conditions and discovered that the water temperature was too high apprently as a result of my new heater being slightly more powerful than my last one (annoyingly its just warming up here so I was gonna turn it off that week). Whilst the fungus continued to grow rapidly at first it quickly began to decrease down to just a few tiny patches under his head. I was changing the water every two days in the quarentine tank and removing any noticable pieces of fungus or waste that appeared. His feeding was irregular but he was still taking food on average twice a week. Everything was going smoothly when a small hole appeared on his tail. I assumed he'd caught it on something as there was no evidence of fungal growth on his tail. I continued to work on removing the fungus problem but the hole in his tail rapidly grew over three days into gap in his tail about 1cmx1cm. As the fungus on his chin was on its last legs I decided that it was time to focus on this hole and leave his own body to deal with the remnants of the fungus. Begining salt baths I noticed that whilst the growth of the hole was not stopped it was at least maintained (somedays it is a millimeter or two bigger others its smaller however it maintains about the same size) and it appears to overall be getting smaller (if slowly). The problem comes with that it had been a few days since my Axie had eaten when the salt baths began and it appears to now be completely off its food and I noticed today that the fungus on his chin has now come back with a vengance and another coloney of it has sprouted on his abdomen. Now obviously he must be fridged but I'm not sure whether to be giving it both a salt bath and a tapwater bath each day or if the stress of being in two hostile environments would exhasibate things.

Tank conditions are currently: Ammonium: 0mg/l, Nitrate: 25mg/l, Nitrite: 1mg/l (unfortunately I had to set up the quarentine tank completely from scratch rather than have it cycled and ready), pH: 6.4-6.8 (colour is kinda inbetween on strip), temperature is about 18C (no thermometer handy but fortunately I do have a heated tank heated to that to compare dipping my finger in with).

Axolotl is fed predominantly on pieces of squid mantle (I adopted him from my university where its all he'd been fed since he was big enough to take food more than brine shrimp and siblings) with very rare live earthworms. He refuses bloodworm at the best of times...scattering them about the tank but not actually eating them.

EDIT: I should probably note he's prone to gulping every few hours but always has been as was overcrowded in his university tank and thus has small gills which have never grown into their own (I got him at 1 year old) even now with room to grow. He also lives with 3 guppies when not in quarentine but they were properly quarentined and were added to the tank about a month before i first noticed the fungus. Aside from the not eating he's behaving normally for him and is quite active during the night and usually hides in or behind his tunnel or behind the plants during the day.

Hi Eon Chao,

I don't understand what tap water baths would do to help. Tap water which hasn't been left to stand or dechlorinated can have dangerous levels of chlorine and fluoride. I would stop the tap water baths immediately.

Squid mantle is not known as a balanced staple for axolotls it is probably time to vary the diet, Bloodworms, earthworms or small pieces of schnitzel might inspire its appetite.

I suggest you fridge your axolotl immediately and start twice daily 10-15 minute salt baths. Are you able to post a photo of the hole and fungus?

Good Luck

Hi Eon Chao,

In addition to Ian's suggestions, i am puzzled why you have a great emphasis on providing heaters. Axies love the cold and do much better at lower temperatures. Unless you get below 5 degree celsius any time of the day, there is absolutely no necessity for a heater. Axies do best around a temperature of 16-18 degree celsius.

Untreated tap water should never be used directly on axies.

Cheers.

OK I can't find it now. But I SWEAR I read - here - that chlorinated water was an option to treat fungus.... I'm really sorry if I'm wrong, but maybe thats where the misguided (?) treatment plan came from?

Hi Sharon,

Chlorine is added to tap water to rid bacteria and fungus, so i am not surprised if there is an antifungal effect. However, weighing the pros and cons, i think its much more detrimental for axies to soak in chlorinated water. Saline solution soaking is much safer and effective in my opinion.

Cheers

Alas I don't have a camera good enough to take a picture of the Axolotl through the tank side let alone a detailed part of its tail. Am continuing with the salt baths and upping them too twice a day. The hole appears to be slowly getting smaller although this could just be my eyes playing tricks on me at this stage.

I quote Axolotl.org
"Saprolegnia, the most common sort of true fungus found in freshwater, can be treated by similar measures as Columnaris and this fungus is only rarely fatal, if treated early. If your tap water has chloramine, this can be used as a treatment for fungal problems. Bathe the wounds or immerse the animal in the water for a few minutes each day, as you would with a salth bath."

After researching Saprolegnia I determined it to be the fungus infecting my Axolotl and as water treating agents remove chloramine as well as chlorine. And as stated it worked, there was no abnormal behaviour from the Axolotl and the fungus receeded. It was only with the salt baths that problems worsened. I think its greatly underestimated how aquatic animals can deal with chlorine and the like. Yes if you leave your animals in tap water permanently they will die of chlorine poisoning but lets not forget that nature generally gives organisms a way of safely removing poisons from their body. 5 minutes in tap water before being returned to treated water will likely cause any residual chlorine or chloramine in the axolotls body to diffuse out of its body and the regular water changes prevent it building up to levels the treatment can't handle.

Whilst the Axolotl is capable of surviving in cold conditions as stated before, it lives with several guppies which need temperatures of about 18C at least, by having a tank heater on at that it remains the same temperature that the Axolotl has been accustomed to during the year whilst keeping the tank at a temperature which does not ill effect the guppies. The problem came when I broke my heater and my new one was alittle more powerful than the previous one (despite being picked because it had the same output) and this resulted in the water temperature being higher than normal, pushing just past the 20C mark which caused the situation.

I feed him squid as its what he takes, has done for two years and I've seen eight year old Axolotl fed on the same very happy. As stated he refuses blood worm. I don't have room for growing my own colony of earth worms so am willing to keep feeding him them iregulary to reduce risk of parasites.

Hi Eon Chao,

Firstly i must assure you we are all here to genuinely help members with their questions. When we suggest some ideas or ask for more history or an explanation of why something is done, it is not meant to point a finger and demonise someone. It is to get better clarity of the situation and try troubleshoot any potential underlying condition.

A lot of the members also have a great wealth of experience and share their tips generously. As we don't know you, nor your level of husbandry experience, we tend to give suggestions of a more conservative nature. Methods with minimal risks and more familiarity are recommended so that other members, particularly those just starting out, and facing a similar situation will not get confused.

In most circumstances, fungal infection, particularly saprolegniasis, is not a primary pathogen. There is almost always an underlying predisposing condition that causes the fungus to flare up and cause an increased susceptibilty in the axie. Most of the time, it is due to poor water parameters, temperature issues, poor nutrition or concurrent illness that immunocompromised the axies, resulting in their fungal infection.

On a positive note, i see that you have done some research and value the importance of quarantine and water parameters. This is commendable. I was concerned about the use of heaters because heat stress is one trigger that can promote fungal infections. Axies tend to do best around 16-18 degree celsius. Most axie keepers will not use a heater unless they get very chilly nights that dip below 5 degree celsius. If your heater is set such that the water temperature stays stable at 18 degree celsius, and does not go beyond, that would not be an issue. However, it would still be good practice to invest in a good thermometer which would give you an absolute reading rather than rely on the 'finger test'.

Nutrition is another very important aspect. Just because you have been been feeding squid as staple for years doesn't mean its correct. In fact, the poor nutrition could be a contributing factor to the current illness. Squid is definitely suitable as an occasional snack but axies obtain their best nutrition from earthworms, blackworms, bloodworms and pellets. Live earthworms and blackworms in particular can also stimulate the appetite of an inappetant axie.

The current recommendations of fridging and salt baths are still valid and practical. Fridging will destress the axolotl and boost its immune system as well as offer an opportunity for close monitoring. Salt baths when performed correctly are also proven to be very effective.

As i mentioned in my earlier post, i have no doubt tap water will have antifungal effect. Under the hands of experienced hobbyists, i am sure it has its place as a therapy. However, there are various factors to consider. Firstly, tap water all over the world is different. We don't know what levels of chlorine, chloramine and heavy metals are present. Unlike a saline solution that can be standardised by following a recipe, we cannot standardise what levels of chemicals are present in tap water everywhere. Secondly, you have to consider the extent and regions of fungal infection. If you told me the top of the tail has a fungal infection, i would still think its relatively fine to use tap water just on the tail tip, however, if your axie has generalised fungal infection and requires a substantial amount of soaking, the cons outweigh the pros. This brings us to the next factor to consider- determining the most effective yet safe soaking period. I am not saying salt baths have no danger to them. Salt baths are harsh on axie skin too, however, we have established a general rule of not soaking them beyond 15min (i normally recommend 10min) based on a standardised saline recipe.

Presence of cholorine and chloramine will certainly cause a certain level of chemical trauma to the the skin, and prolonged soaking can result in toxicity. Protective mucus on the skin can be stripped along with the visible fungus but will remain vulnerable. Just because my liver can detoxify alcohol doesn't mean i get the free licence to binge drink. If you can avoid such negative effects on your axie, won't you want to try a safer method?

Cheers.

Hi Eon Chao,

My apologies if you took my post to be insulting or demeaning, it was not intended as such.

Why I would not recommend tap water is not just due to the presence of chlorine or chloramine but as Rayson points out the possible presense of other heavy metals such as lead although the former 2 can have detrimental effects as well, as can fluoride.

Manifestly the dietary and keeping practices that you are currently employing are not producing the best results and as before I would suggest some changes. In the interim salt/tea baths and fridging are a tried and true way of dealing with the fungus issue. With the minimum of risk to your axolotl.

To determine exactly what your tap water contains have a look here http://www.dwi.gov.uk/pubs/annrep07/contents.shtm it will tell you by region what contaminants were found in your drinking water at the last test.

Good Luck

I am aware of some who use regular tap water as a method for treating fungus. I did when one of my axolotl had a disappearing tail. The tail did clear up well, but I can not say if it was solely down to the tap water or the axolotl. I suspect on this occasion it was due to my pH being very soft (I was using rain water for the axolotl water changes) and the tap water is much harder. Salt baths do tend to reliably treat fungus.
I am pretty sure I have mentioned tap water being used as a treatment to Sharon ( so she's not really loosing the plot :happy

Well first thigns first I should apologise if I seem to be short with you guys. As you can imagine something like this is rather stressful to deal with and I am actually greatful for the help you've provided so far.

After examining the water conditions of my area I have decided to pursue a program of fridging (he's currently there now) with a salt bath for 10 minutes every day and a tap water bath for 5 minutes every other day. This is in order to allow his immune system to recover.

I still have plenty of squid and access to wild earth worms (not ideal I know) so will continue to offer him food each morning and pursue investigating alternate diets after he both starts eating again and has made a significant improvement on one of the two conditions. The healing process has likely been hindered by rather hot weather we've been having here over the past week. Hopefully though now he's fridged I'll be able to let you guys know that things are improving again soon.

Well happily the fungus appears to have cleared up rather nicely. I can no longer see any filaments of patches of it on his skin or around his mouth. However I have noticed over the last few days that the holes in his tail aren't healing up nor are the holes around where the fungus was and am wondering if a combination of stress and malnutrition could have led to a situation where he's caught some form of fin/skin rot. I have read in the past that this can be treated in some other species of salamander with the same treatment agents that people use to treat fish with fin rot and am considering replacing salt baths with baths in these treatment agents. I'm wondering if anyone else has experience with these methods.

Also am looking into buying and keeping live black worm as an alternate diet for him.

Hi Eon Chao,

Its good news the fungus cleared up. Would you be able to post photos of the tail fin and areas where there are skin ulceration? Hold off chemical treatment until at least the pathology can be identified. Blackworms are a fantastic food source. They are my favourite food choice for axies after earthworms.

Cheers.