Sick axie on YouTube?

I want to stress that this is NOT my axolotl and I do not know who the owner is, I just found this video on YouTube. What is up with this axie? Is it really ammonia burn like someone suggests?

Warning - I don't understand what is going on in this video but I found it distressing. So might others.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9-pfXL4D3w

Oh, that poor thing! What ignorant people to think oh cool, I guess I will make a YouTube video and call it "Dolphin Style". What morons!! I feel really bad for this little helpless creature!

I am not sure what the problem is myself, but I really feel for the little guy. Probably the result of people who did not do their research at all, walked into a pet store and thought it looked cool, and walked out with the set up and axie the same day. It should be illegal. There should be a waiting period.

Thank you Fumi for sharing that find on youtube. It is actually rather educational. I have given you rep points for that.

The writhing/frantic 'dolphin' movements are indicative of a discomfort. It could be due to poor water parameters and temperature or/and an ongoing infection - bacterial, fungal or parasitic.

If you notice carefully, the throat region on that axie is puffy. I would highly suspect either an early onset stage of bloat or infectious stomatitis, which is an infection in the mouth. There is a chance that it could also be a foreign body impaction in the mouth/throat.

Regards.

I had axolotls that I kept earlier year back that did similar things to that which was before I learnt that 30 degrees water was not good for them. But its not as if pets shops or aquarium stores tell you these things, that what books and this forum is for.

Oh dear! I seem to have found another ignorant axolotl owner. We should enlist an army of people all over the world who will train the inexperienced and ban people from keeping axies when appropriate. Nothing upsets me more than cruelty to animals, but somehow, some people don't even seem to see their own pets as animals, and see them more as ornaments to be observed. It's clear that any animal would need more space. To me the water looks fresh, so it's not like it's matured with good bacteria either. Sigh. Poor little miss treated axies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-piOKIS2m8k

The first one is bad, the second one is awful!

That poor poor axolotl. It actually looks depressed!

I really feel for this animal.

I actually cannot stand seeing things like this. Maybe you could comment the video telling them their axie is stressed and give them tips, if not could you send me the URL please and i shall do so.
This makes me so upset, i read about Draco last night, the ebay axie and now this. It's so not fair.

Sorry, i just seen it was called Dolphin Style and found the video. Thanks for posting.

On the old comments it looks like someone has already pointed this out and the owner has resolved it (the video is a year old) - one good thing we could do though is to advise them in a friendly way to check out this site, as it will help them become a great axie owner - I have no youtube log in, so can't though

Lacey, if you click on the video, it will take you to the page.

X

The feedback that people have left for the latest one on YouTube is...um...interesting (profanity and bad grammar alert, if you go to YouTube to see it), it should give the person who posted the video a fairly clear idea that what they're doing is very wrong.

We can only hope that they will realise that they're mistreating the poor axolotl and do some reasearch to find out how it should be treated.

I'm going to firmly believe that it's cruelty though ignorance; the alternative is just way too depressing. I'd almost believe that it's a work-in-progress (and I use that term in a strictly "Igor, pull the switch!!" mad-scientist way) for forcing the poor thing to metamorphose by reducing its water level....

Cruelty is a topic that comes up on this forum a lot, and something that I believe, depressing as it is, we should always be aware of. We probably feel like we can't do much about it most of the time but just by the awareness we create by raising the topic here we're helping out. Those who come here to learn may find these threads and understand a bit about the importance of care for all creatures.

Kudos to you, Fiona.

Great post frankie. Although we all know some people dont love/care about animals as much as most on here, its nice to know that ignorence can be fixed through great sites like this one.

I have to say that I literally began feeling sick to my stomach as I watched those videos. I'm glad there are people like you guys out there to spread the word (if only on an individual by individual basis for now) to help the ignorant learn how to better care for their animals and how important it is to do research before deciding to care for an animal. Hopefully these two owners were able to fix their mistakes in time.

I don't think the first video is that bad, the axolotl looks quite healthy and doesn't display any of the usual stress indicators, it is a good weight and has very healthy gills. If you look at the way the fish is reacting in the tank I would say both have been given a fright and the radical axolotl swimming style is in fact caused by the flight response.

The second video, if this the the axolotls normal habitat then this is shocking.

This having been said, axolotls are common in research facilities and to the hobbiest the conditions in which they are kept would be quite horrendous and some of the experiments that are performed on them barbaric at best.

All research facilities and laboratories have stringent animal ethic committee approvals before they can experiment on live animals. This includes housing requirements, feeding, treatment of sick animals and such. In general, the reduce, replace, reuse concept applies.

Sadly, in both videos, the axies are not kept properly. What i would do is to direct the folks who put up those videos to this site, use gentle persuasion to encourage them to recitfy their mistakes. The hardest thing in life is dealing with people. Even with the best intentions, how we deliver our message across determines the efficacy. Most folks will be very resistant to well meaning albeit 'harsh' advice. (And this is through experience with consults with clients).

There is no doubt or question that research facilities behave within ethical guidelines.

The fact still remains, as I said, that most "Hobbiests" would find the housing of axolotls in small unfurnished and often crowded habitats to be unacceptable albeit humane and within ethical guidelines. I believe most "Hobbiests" would also find experiments such as limb removal to examine regeneration to be horrendous and if conducted outside of a laboratry or research facility to be cruel and inhumane.

Whilst the habitat in the first video is bland and uninteresting at best. The axolotl does not look in poor or unhealthy condition.

How frustrating. I wrote a response to the second video. 500 word limit. I managed that, but even though I have a YouTube account and am logged in, I can't seem to leave any comments. Technical difficulties. Hmmmm. My comment was going to be;

Hi Shindiio. I realise that you posted your video a year ago but I just wanted to check with you to see how your axolotl is doing. I have to admit I did post your video on an axolotl enthusiast forum and most users including myself were very worried for your axolotl and the conditions in which it is kept. I hope your axolotl is still well and that you might take the time to visit the following website where they would be happy to advise you in caring for your axolotl. http://www.caudata.org

I decided to snoop around this users YouTube profile and found a couple more videos in the same spirit as the one we have already seen. Then I found this video where the axie finally has a little more water, but the bubbles and current of the water are clearly causing it stress - it's tail is all curvy. I remember thinking in the first video that if the water were deep enough for it to be completely submerged that it's gills would probably be forward, but then I realised while watching this that it gills are barely little stumps! They've nearly gone completely. So I think that Franks "Igor, pull the switch!!" theory is actually what's going on here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1FL30BCQe4

Because i am a researcher dealing with live animals, a clinical vet as well as a hobbyist and breeder, i can appreciate the different perspectives. It really is a contentious issue because every viewpoint comes with valid reasons. It really is a balance between emotion/sentiment versus detached scientific approach. The ethics of live animal research is within the scope of my training to be a pecialist in lab animal medicine.

Viewing this in terms of a spectrum, most hobbyists fall within the emotion/sentiment end where they treat their axie like a much loved pet. This is understandable. However, i still firmly believe there is a need for live animal research. These research advance the scientific/medical community and would benefit humans and animals alike in the long run. With the Animal Ethics Committee in check, most modern (and respectable) research facility will have to meet high standards in providing good housing, nutrition, husbandry and veterinary practices for the laboratory animals. There is a misconception that laboratory animals are housed in cramped/ stressful conditions. This is not true. All lab animals are housed such that they have environmental enrichment and as stress free as possible so as not to produce confounder effects in the experiments. Stressed animals will not produce accurate data for research. In fact, for gregarious species such as mice, they will never be housed alone. They are provided with a companion 'desexed' conspecific mouse for company.

As for the first video clip, housing wise, it doesn't seem too bad. However, welfare is beyond just housing conditions. The abnormal writhing movement as well as the visibly swollen throat are indicative that something is amiss. This could be poor water parameters and temperature or an underlying condition such as infectious stomatitis that have gone unnoticed and untreated.

Cheers.

big a little a said:

On the old comments it looks like someone has already pointed this out and the owner has resolved it (the video is a year old) - one good thing we could do though is to advise them in a friendly way to check out this site, as it will help them become a great axie owner - I have no youtube log in, so can't though

Lacey, if you click on the video, it will take you to the page.

X

Click to expand...

Great point Zoe.
And here's my penny's worth...The second post looks to me like the axolotl has problems with floating. I am wondering of the owner has put the axy in a shallow container for this reason...may be its not an obvious case of axolotl abuse?
I think you need to be very careful using the likes of youtube to look for imformation regarding axolotl ( or anything for that matter)..The things you see on that site will make your toes curl!

I did not mean to cause offence to Scientists or Researchers by my comments.

Its not too clear in photo one but all those containers hold axolotls in a research facility, as in photo two. Photo 3 is taken in a research facility operating within its ethical guidelines. Doesn't make it any less horrendous or offensive. Please bear in mind that I didn't post the really shocking photos. Further to this the habitats in photo two look remarkably similar to that of the axolotl in the second you tube clip.

The point is if I housed my axolotls in the same way as photo one or two and posted pictures of them here on this site, then there would be a substantial outcry, and many posts condemning me for my axolotl keeping practises.

Ethics are not constant, and change to suit the current moods/sentiments of society. What is acceptable to say and do today may well change tomorrow. Take stem cell research or abortion for example. To make a blanket statement that Research Facilities are governed by Ethical Guidelines is really ambiguous at best.

For example Russian Dr. Inna V. Ravich-Shcherbo conducted research and experiments on twins which at the time were considered at best contraversial, and at worst inhumane and unethical. His findings are now recognised, and his work respected. Why because the Ethical values have changed.

Considered cruelty to animals whether for the purpose of scientific research or for some sence of warped pleasure is NEVER Ethical.

Awareness makes me sad. Ignorance is bliss, but it's not going to help the matter.

Some days, for example when I've been to the zoo or seen some piglets at a farm, I can't stand the thought of eating meat. There really is nothing in this world that I consider more important or worthy than animals. Sometimes I sing lullabies to my cats. Shhhh! I've never mentioned that to anyone before.

And other days, when I've had a good day working outside, maybe helping my mum to build a flight for her birds or when we extended the pond in her garden, I can't wait to have a nice big chunk of meat with my dinner. I had a rare bison rib eye steak the other day. I'm drooling just thinking about it. It appeals to my primitive nature. On those days my boyfriend would probably get away with hitting my around the head with a club. But I wont go into that....

My point is, one day I would probably inwardly judge people for eating meat and another day I couldn't think of anything more satisfying than a juicy carcass. There's no straight forward answer when it comes to this kind of thing. I am still all for burning crappy owners at the stake, but on the other hand I watched a short video the other day that was based in a lab where axolotls were experimented on. And it did show a scalpel wielding scientist with a baby axie. Then I began to wonder, if they did discover what made the axies able to regenerate, what a difference that would make if they could some how use that to benefit people (even if we are all undeserving). I'm not a scientist and I doubt that they could implant that trait into people, but imagine the possibilities...