Laoensis eggs!

I've had my Laoensis for about 4 years or so and each year i've tried to get them to breed. I've always got them courting but never anything came of it.
This year i really wanted to crack it so i have experimented with temps, water levels water currents...you name it, i've tried it these past couple of months!....well, last night i went into my newt room and was confronted with the site of one female performing her egg laying acrobatics!....ive aspotted 1bout 6 eggs so far though i'm not really disturbing her to look for more right now. She's really going for it though and hasn't stoped all night and all day!
Of course, they may be infertile....or she may stop after laying a small amount, but right now i am pretty pleased with what im seeing so i guess i'll keep my fingers crossed all goes well!

I'll keep you posted as to what happens over the next few days and try to get some pics....though, we have all seen such pictures as Paul has so expertly documented everything about breeding this species

Congratulations!!
I can see this species stablishing itself in the hobby in a couple of years. Three years ago they were extremely rare. Now they are at the very least available, and more importantly CB. Given the number of breeding groups that are now distributed among the hobbyists, it´s a matter of time until they start being bred with relative frequency.

We want some over here!!

Brilliant news! I agree with Rodrigo - this species was in danger of becoming another Neurergus kaiseri, when it suddenly hit the market as WC animals. Now that people are starting to breed this species, and provide lots of CB animals, hopefully laoensis will not suffer the same fate.

Congratulations

Chris

Great to hear it, Andrew. What do you think was the charm that got them to breed this year?

just a matter of time before the US get there hands on some, like me. awesome newts.:blob:

AW: Re: Laoensis eggs!

Andrew, document all information that seem important for your breeding!
It is still difficult to breed them, and there are only very few successful breeding to adult!

Paul

To the US-friends: make a law, that it is legal to bring them in the USA, then you can get some!

Re: AW: Re: Laoensis eggs!

paul_b said:

Paul

To the US-friends: make a law, that it is legal to bring them in the USA, then you can get some!

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They aren't restricted so usfw shouldn't have a problem issuing a permit. I gave up my import license and don't want to get involved with the technicalities of importing. I would like to see somebody legally import them to the U.S. and offer some for sale at reasonable prices.

Re: AW: Re: Laoensis eggs!

Great work Andy, and glad to know you are still alive!!

The only reason laoensis don't have a presence in the USA is that there is limited interest (enthusiastic but limited) in them and quite simply no-one wants to do the footwork associated with importing them and assume the financial risk that is inherent with importing live, valuable animals.

Travis

AW: Re: AW: Re: Laoensis eggs!

tdimler said:

...and quite simply no-one wants to do the footwork associated with importing them ...

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I tried to finde someone for a legal import - but was not successfull!

Paul

Hi guys, well....the female in question is doing my head in a bit now because she is really fat with eggs but not laying them as quick as i'd like! The first night she laid about 12 eggs, then the next night she laid about 6. I have about 20 eggs right now that look okay though it's still too early to see if they are going to develop.
For the past two nights she hasn't laid any eggs apart from a couple of oversized and clearly infertile eggs. I have been getting up early each morning to see if she has laid more during the night and the past couple of days i've seen nothing.
I quickly discovered that i should remove the eggs as fast as possible because on the first day of getting eggs i observed my female trying to eat them which Paul tells me is behaviour he has seen too. All i can do for now is to hope the eggs i already have are fertile and do well and also to hope i get some more as id like to raise loads of these like i do with the Kweichows.

Jenn, as for what i think got these going this year....
I think the main factor was that i got them cooler than i have ever done, about 8/10c for a few weeks. That really got them primed. I then raised the temp to 16c and observed courting for a week or so...then isolated a pair to their own tank at 18c for a couple of weeks. I then filled this tank with loads of plants and put a small filter in the water so as to give a slight current. I also think that partial water changes help each day.

So for now all we can do is wait and see what happens next....keep your fingers crossed for me all goes well and i'll keep you guys informed!!

AW: Re: Laoensis eggs!

@Andrew, 16/17 °C seem to be the best temperature for laying eggs!

Paul

I have a similar problem that Andy said. I had observed the spermatophore passage from male to female. Have passed 13days from that occurence. Kamil´s laoensis took 21days from spermatophore till first eggs. So in 8days i hope mine finally lay.
The temperature in their aquarium is stabilized at 18ºC but in the spermathopore transmition I guess it was 16ºC... Does it have any bad consequence keeping them in higher temps? How can i lower them? I have an 1,20meter aquarium many rocks and logs some plants (4 different types) with 100L of water. I have even see the female trying to lay eggs in elodeas but she quit it just after some seconds.
I know I keep a different species, guangxiensis, but even so they are from same genus... Can anybody give me a hand?

Thanks,

Not even nthe same genus anymore, Jorge.
P.laoensis was changed to Laotriton laoensis, because the differences with Paramesotriton are too big to keep them under the same genus.

Even if they were still the same genus, differences between species can be great, so extrapolating the breeding behaviour of one species to another can be very flawed.

AW: Re: Laoensis eggs!

eljorgo said:

...The temperature in their aquarium is stabilized at 18ºC but in the spermathopore transmition I guess it was 16ºC... Does it have any bad consequence keeping them in higher temps? How can i lower them? ...

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You can lower the temperature very easy by blowing with a vent on the water surface (app. 2°C).
But I think there is no usual time between sperm pic up and egg laying!

Paul

Hello Last night I putted 3kg of ice bottles and made a 45L water change.
Even so, no eggs. This morning the thermometer pointed out 15.5ºC so during the night it might be even lower. Not even one egg.

I'm pleased to say that my female Laoensis laid 12 eggs last night after having a break for the past few days. Lets hope she will continue!

Eljorgo, i've bred a couple of the Paramesotriton species and i dont think you'll will get instant results by dropping the temp for a short time like that.
Each time i've bred them it's been around this time of year and i have always put the newts in an outbuilding which gets very cold but doesn't freeze...the temps are 8/10c as an average. I've kept them in this cold setup for 4 to 6 weeks and the cold really gets them primed and ready for breeding because as you probably already know, cold weather activates sex cells in males and females. Raising the temps after this cooling along with perhaps an increase in light levels etc and also adding lots of ideal eggs laying plants seems to do the trick.

Really? Thanks. I make that for my Triturus and Cynops...Never though in using it for Paramesotriton!! Thanks on the tip.. But isn´t it to late? My female keeps trying to lay eggs (with no success) And also I´ve seen her pic the spermatophore..
So does it help at this point? Cheers.

Jorge

Well i guess at this point your only option is to leave her to it and give her lots of nice plants to lay on. Partial water changes on a regular basis always seem to help too....good luck!

I'm glad that she is laying again. With regards to temperatures and breeding, I think that this is quite species-specific. Some species will inevitably undergo marked seasonal changes with cold winters, particularly the more temperately-distributed ones. However, for some species temperatures are quite stable year-round. For example, Paramesotriton zhijinensis, which is described from a single spring-fed village pond, lives in water that does not significantly deviate from 18 degrees C year round. Some of the more sub-tropical/tropical Paramesotriton (from the Vietnam/Laos/tropical China region) probably will not experience winters as cold as the species from less tropical environments.

What I'm saying is that its worth researching the climate of the home range of a given species before giving it a cold winter. Assuming one knows which species one has, of course....

Chris