Illness/Sickness: HELP PLEASE! White spots!!!

Velaria · Mar 26, 2010

My "blue" melanoid came down with these spots on her body a few days ago, but I was having issues with my camera and couldn't take pics until today. These past few days, she's been in the fridge with methylene blue, and I only notice a slight improvement.

In addition to having these spots, her gills also look a bit shabby, as you can see below.

She shared her tank with a leucistic (who has since been moved out of the tank) and the leucistic does not have these spots and shows absolutely no signs of ill health.

Please tell me what these spots are and how I can treat them- they look painful. Is it ich?:

http://www.rebeldolly.com/ich1.jpg

Shizeric · Mar 26, 2010

What is the temp in the tank? And water parameters?

Velaria · Mar 27, 2010

Shizeric said:
What is the temp in the tank? And water parameters?

74 degree temp, ammonia 0, nitrite, nitrate, and ph all totally normal. I must add that although she shared her tank with a leucistic, they were separated by a tank separator, so these are not battle wounds.

callina · Mar 27, 2010

74 F is too warm - you should cool the water down to 68 degrees.But the temp is probably not the reason for the wounds. It looks like someone has nipped on him. Are there any other inhabitants in the tank - fishes, crabs?
To put him in the fridge is fine, but I don´t think, that methyleneblue will work. This could be a bad infection, so it will be better to go to a vet.

Tina

vladimere · Mar 27, 2010

vet time and a antibiotic shot

Bellabelloo · Mar 27, 2010

Sorry if I am being a bit dense here ( it happens a lot :bowl

. Has the axolotl seen the vet, and if so what did he diagnose? Curious...

Shizeric · Mar 27, 2010

Hate to disagree with your Callina, as I often agree with the advice you give 100%. However, I asked the tank temperature precisely because I thought these symptoms sounded heat related. Axolotls can develop heat spots, and have their gills appear less "fluffy". I would blame the issues on the heat, and your first priority should be bringing the temperature down.

Velaria · Mar 27, 2010

Thanks, Shizeric!

OK, I'll lower the temp. I thought that 74-76 was ideal for axolotls, though. That's what I read on this forum years ago. Misinformation, I guess. So why would the heat spots develop on the melanoid, but not the leucistic? Maybe the melanoid was just more susceptible, or maybe the spots are just showing up on her more, since she's black? Would these spots be white on a leucistic, or would they look pinkish/reddish? I REALLY examined the leucistic closely, and I see absolutely nothing abnormal on him at all. No spots, no shabby gills, nothing.

So since she's in the fridge right now, the heat issue is rectified, and should I assume that the spots will go away now that she's in the fridge? Can we rule out a bacterial or viral infection, or would it be premature to do so?

There were no other inhabitants in the tank at all, except for a few daphnia

Vet... I'm having trouble finding one in my area. I'll do some more research on that.

My friend (Dragonlady) thinks it's ich, and she suggested that I treat the axie with Maracyn, which I bought on ebay last night. The Maracyn couldn't hurt, even if it's not bacterial or fungal, right?

dragonlady · Mar 27, 2010

The tiny white dots definitely look like ich to me but my experience is related to 20+ years in a tropical fish background. Is it possible for axies to get ich? The larger sores being heat related makes sense - I had suggested to Velaria that they formed as a result of the ich breaking down the immune system - therefore breaking down the slimecoat causing the sores to form.

If this is ich, the leucistic could very will have it, but it would be extremely difficult to see against the white as you can imagine. I would suggest that the leucistic receive similar treatment as it might not be as advanced as the melanoid.

Anybody else have any ideas?? I'm definitely new to the world of axies and the last thing I want to do is give Velaria or anyone else bad advice. If this is ich, she does not have a great deal of time, ich is non-relenting and spreads quickly.

Bellabelloo · Mar 27, 2010

I could find no imformation regarding Ich and axolotl.
It looks to me like an infection of some sort, some of the 'spots' seem a little too deep for my liking. I really think a visit to a vet would be for the best. Keep her cool and in clean water in the mean time.

dragonlady · Mar 27, 2010

She has noted that the small white spots have spread. So I do believe that she has a couple of different issues happening here. Ich is a very common aquatic disease but probably not common to axolotls due to their low temps. However, having the tank in the 70s could be warm enough for ich.

The ulcers, lesions, sores or whatever those larger spots are - are a definite concern. Has anyone seen these before? Is there a pic somewhere showing what heat spots look like? Do her spots look like heat spots or some sort of infection? I don't think the larger spots are improving but at the same time, they are not getting worse.

She's having a really hard time getting in touch with a vet, and I have also had no luck getting in touch with my vet.

Does anyone think Holtfreter's solution would help?

callina · Mar 28, 2010

@Shizeric: Why and at what point do you disagree with me? Would you say, that there´s no need to go to a vet?

..................

I don´t know what Ich is and I couldn´t find a translation, but I suggest that you mean http://forestle.org/goto.php?url=http://www.aqua-magica.de/puenktchenkrankheit.htmlIchthyophthiriose. If I´m right, I must say, that I´ve never heard axolotls becoming ill of Ichthyophtiriose.

@Velaria: I only can recommend you to go to a vet. It might be an infection caused by parasites.

dragonlady · Mar 28, 2010

Callina, I do think what you found is what I am referring to. Ichthyophthirius multifiliis or Ich is a common parasite that causes more deaths in tropical fish than any other disease. Ich has occurred in the tadpole stage of frogs and there have been cases in aquatic dwarf African frogs. Granted the frogs were sharing a heated tank with tropical fish but they did get it and Maracyn was used with success. I know of this but it was not my tank. The tadpoles were not sharing their tank with anyone else. The tadpole reference is from an article in an fish enthusiast magazine (sorry, can't recall the mag) from a few years ago.

I am certainly not claiming to know more than Callina or Scherzic here but just hoping to be helpful to a friend who has been instrumental in my life with axolotls. Edit: Didn't mean to overlook Bellabelloo here, either -sorry.

I sincerely hope that Velaria gets in touch with a vet and updates this post. I wish Velaria the very best and hope beyond all else that she is able to save her axolotl.

Shizeric · Mar 28, 2010

Callina, I disagreed with your point that you didn't think the issue was heat related. This is what I have read...and seems like what you have on your hands...

Temperatures above 24 °C (75 °F) are very stressful to axolotls. Such temperatures cause metabolism to increase (the rate at which the body "works"), and consequently, an increase in appetite. However, the stress resulting from more than a day or two of exposure to these temperatures will quickly lead to disease and death.
The first symptoms of heat stress in axolotls include refusal of food and/or the development of pale patches of mucus-like material on the skin.

Blaze · Mar 28, 2010

I think the mucus patches look different to what this is form the pictures I have seen. They look like a patch, not really a spot.

Blaze · Mar 28, 2010

Heres an example:

dragonlady · Mar 28, 2010

Thanks Blaze. That's the same pic I saw and why I asked if there were other pics somewhere as your pic is not what Velaria's look like. Do you have any ideas as what may have caused these? My first thought were wounds, but Velaria's have no tank mates.

I think Callina and I are on the same page with the parasite idea, just I was trying to determine the exact parasite. I don't know that the larger lesions are from the same problem though.

I am sure Shizeric has a reason for his heat related diagnosis and as all the sores are seemingly so uniform, I do wonder if he still may be right.

Bellabelloo · Mar 28, 2010

In the last photo, the uppermost 'spot' ... is there something there? I think I see, and only in that picture a nearly y like shape..could we have a case of anchor worm? .

dragonlady · Mar 28, 2010

Excellent eye, Bellabelloo!

Velaria, could you post a new pic of the area Bellabelloo is referring to?

Also, what about the spot about 1.3 cm in front of her lower leg in the same pic at the bottom. Looks like there is something there as well.

callina · Mar 29, 2010

I cannot see an anchor worm (my monitor is dazzling), but if there is one, there might be others and then we have found the answer to this problem.

Very excellent, Bella...................you must have eyes like a cat.

Illness/Sickness: HELP PLEASE! White spots!!!

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