Bloat?

Hi Folks,

I have a wild-type axolotl named Widget. She lives in a 10 gallon tank with an AquaClear 20 filter set on low flow, no heater, and no light. The tank is located in a dark corner that receives no direct sunlight, and stays 65-ish degrees most of the time. The tank has a big rock, a piece of driftwood, and some plastic plants to hide in. Up until recently the tank had a large gravel substrate (this type). It has been completely removed. Widget is usually a very good eater. She gets mostly Hikari Sinking Carnivore Pellets (these), and the occasional guppy or minnow (I won't be feeding her any more pet store fish and am planning to set up another tank to breed guppies).

Last week when I went to clean her tank I discovered that she was bloated and had left her food uneaten. I read through the posts on this forum and concluded that she probably had a rock impaction. I put her in clean dechlorinated water in a tub in the refrigerator at 7 degrees C. She has been there for a week. Twice now I have seen a few specks of poo, but she is still quite fat. I have palpated her abdomen and found no rocks. Shining a high-power flashlight reveals all of her bones, but no rocks. I am wondering at this point if maybe an infection is causing her bloat. Her gills have begun to look "threadbare" for lack of a better word, kind of tattered and dark. I don't know if this is normal in refrigerated axolotls. I tried to offer her some frozen turtle food (this kind) which she has liked in the past, but she did not eat.

I know the best thing would be to take her to a vet who specializes in herps. Unfortunately I am currently financially dependent on my parents and they do not approve of spending a hundred dollars on a pet that isn't furry. So I need to do as much as possible on my own. Does anyone know what I should do at this point?

Here is a picture of her a week ago, just before I put her in the fridge and took out all the gravel. I would say she is about the same today.

Thank you in advance.

Hi CrazyBirdLady,

Yes, that certainly looks like bloat. The fluids that have built up will need to be drained by a vet.

The fridge will help alleviate the axolotl's stress, and will slow the metabolism so she will not need to eat while being fridged. Try offering a little bit of earthworm each day, the worm can be safely left in the container over night, and then you need only remove the dead each morning, and replace with fresh. Don't be concerned if the axolotl doesn't eat while being fridged, the slowed metabolism decreases the appetite - this is normal.

Have you been changing her water each day while she is being fridged? If not, this may be causing the erosion of the gills. You will need to use fridged dechlorinated water for these water changes, to keep the temperature consistant, so the axolotl is not subjected to temperature shock.

I strongly recommend changing the axolotl's diet to earthworm, as earthworm contains all the nutrition an axolotl needs in one wriggling package.

Fatty foods are major contributers to bloat. Further information on the dangers of nutritional deficiency can be found here:

Physical problems, such as fluid build-up (edema and ascites), and abnormal cell growth (tumours), are sometimes encountered by the hobbyist. Some of these physical problems are the result of genetic abnormalities and there is usually little that can be done aside from letting nature take its course. Some books recommend draining the fluid with a hypodermic needle but this should only be done by a vet. Fluid build-up can be caused by heart damage, kidney problems, nutritional deficiencies, and even old age. There's not a lot that can be done in such cases, and drained fluid usually builds up again.

Some physical problems are related to nutrition. Caudates (a term used to describe newts and salamanders) tend to have difficulty dealing with large quantities of fats and oils in their diet. White worms and tubifex are the most commonly quoted high fat foods. Dog food can also contain a high proportion of oils and fats. When fed exclusively on these foods, occurrences of sclerosis of the liver increase. Other foods, such as mealworms, are quite low in calcium, which can lead to a number of problems. They also have a lot of chitin (a structural protein in insects and some crustaceans) which axolotls can't digest, and this passes through their guts intact. Again, these shouldn't be fed as the sole food but rather as an occasional treat to avoid health problems. Mealworms present an additional danger: they have poweful jaws that can damage an axolotl internally. If you must feed mealworms, it is advisable to crush the jaws of the mealworms prior to feeding. This can be accomplished using a strong forceps or tweezers.

If your axolotl develops a nutritional problem, change its diet immediately and try to feed it a variety of foods. Nutritional deficiencies often lead to increased likelihood of the Axolotl succumbing to bacterial or fungal disease.

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Water quality is most important for an axolotl's health and wellbeing. Had you tested the tank water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH at the time you had those stones in the tank? The grot that gets trapped under the rocks (the only way to get the muck out is to move all the rocks) can wreak havoc with water quality if not removed promptly.

Thank you Jacquie for your reply. I appreciate the help, but I have some questions.

Jacquie said:

Hi CrazyBirdLady,

Yes, that certainly looks like bloat. The fluids that have built up will need to be drained by a vet.

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The article you quoted says the fluid usually comes back after draining. Is that amount of trauma justified? If it is an edema wouldn't it go down over time once the underlying cause is rectified?

Jacquie said:

The fridge will help alleviate the axolotl's stress, and will slow the metabolism so she will not need to eat while being fridged. Try offering a little bit of earthworm each day, the worm can be safely left in the container over night, and then you need only remove the dead each morning, and replace with fresh. Don't be concerned if the axolotl doesn't eat while being fridged, the slowed metabolism decreases the appetite - this is normal.

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I do not understand. Should I or should I not feed her while she is being fridged? Should I even still be fridging her?

Jacquie said:

Have you been changing her water each day while she is being fridged? If not, this may be causing the erosion of the gills. You will need to use fridged dechlorinated water for these water changes, to keep the temperature consistant, so the axolotl is not subjected to temperature shock.

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Yes. I am following the directions specified in this forum.

Jacquie said:

I strongly recommend changing the axolotl's diet to earthworm, as earthworm contains all the nutrition an axolotl needs in one wriggling package.

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By earthworm do you mean red wigglers? I have access to a vermicompost bin with red wigglers. Would those worms be suitable? Also, what research supports this? I have read that captive axolotls do very well on semisoft salmonid diets and high-quality carnivore pellets. They do not eat earthworms in the wild. Earthworms are mostly water and have very little nutritional value. I have worked extensively in wildlife rescue since 1996 and never once have earthworms been a recommended food for any animal, except as enrichment/fun junk food.

Jacquie said:

Fatty foods are major contributers to bloat. Further information on the dangers of nutritional deficiency can be found here:

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Thank you for the article.

Jacquie said:

Water quality is most important for an axolotl's health and wellbeing. Had you tested the tank water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH at the time you had those stones in the tank? The grot that gets trapped under the rocks (the only way to get the muck out is to move all the rocks) can wreak havoc with water quality if not removed promptly.

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I did. All values were normal (0, 0, 5, and about 7 respectively). I did not test it after moving her to the fridge because I knew the uneaten food would produce a lot of pollution. I did two 90% water changes and evacuated her. The tank is running right now with some pellets in it to keep the filter bacteria fed. I will monitor the water quality as soon as I have some idea when I will be re-introducing Widget to the tank.

Hi,

The rocks you have in the bottom of your tank are too small and it is very possible your axolotl is now impacted and this could be the cause of the edema. She really needs to be seen by a vet.

Sand is one of the recommended substrates for axolotls. Most find it easier to maintain as well.

Yes, food may be offered daily while in the fridge, but don't be surprised if she doesn't eat as her metabolism will be slowed.

Red wigglers are okay, but not as nutritious as E. Hortensis. Canadian nightcrawlers are usually used unless you raise your own. Here is information on the nutritional value of various FOOD including earthworms. Pellets can be used as a supplement but keep in mind they are man made and have fillers. Earthworms are the recommended staple for axolotls as Jacquie said.

Hope this helps. Good luck with your little girl!

It's pretty commonly accepted in fish, reptile, and amphibian forums that Earthworms are a pretty nutritionally complete staple food item for animals large enough to eat them.

dragonlady said:

Hi,

The rocks you have in the bottom of your tank are too small and it is very possible your axolotl is now impacted and this could be the cause of the edema. She really needs to be seen by a vet.

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You may wish to re-read my post. Thank you.

dragonlady said:

Red wigglers are okay, but not as nutritious as E. Hortensis.

Hope this helps. Good luck with your little girl!

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Thank you for clarifying.

I did read your post and apologize as I obviously did not finish my thought. oops...

Personally, I am a worrywart when it comes to my kids or my pets (stepkids!) and would rather have the x-ray in hand to know for sure. I understand the money issue, perhaps you can work out a payment plan with the vet for the treatment. She will most likely need antibiotics, so something will need to be worked out.

I am happy that you have removed those stones. Please keep us updated as we all will be worried right along with you! Take care...

Widget has been in the fridge for about 2 weeks now. She has not passed anything significant. I still cannot find a rock in her belly. She still is severely bloated.

I will reiterate, I cannot take her to the vet. It is not a question of money tightness or payment plans. Please do not keep telling me to do something I cannot do.

If she has swallowed a rock, what is the timeline I should expect for her to pass the rock if she is capable of doing so? Is there any point to refrigerating her longer?

At this point I am considering euthanasia, using a protocol outlined here. If she cannot pass the blockage or her bloat is being caused by kidney damage or infection, this may be the best option for her. If it is possible she may still recover I will wait, but given that she has not improved over the course of two weeks I am not sure it is humane to continue waiting.

CrazyBirdLady said:

I will reiterate, I cannot take her to the vet. It is not a question of money tightness or payment plans. Please do not keep telling me to do something I cannot do.

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Perhaps if you made it more clear WHY you couldn't bring your pet to a vet, we may stop proposing it as the main solution to your problem. Simply saying you cannot is kind of a shady answer.

Since no one knows for sure the cause of the problem, then it's hard to provide an answer of how long it would take to notice any results. If your axolotl is impacted, then a rock is causing a block and may not come out at all.

Is your Axolotl still eating and acting normally?

Shizeric said:

Perhaps if you made it more clear WHY you couldn't bring your pet to a vet, we may stop proposing it as the main solution to your problem. Simply saying you cannot is kind of a shady answer.

Since no one knows for sure the cause of the problem, then it's hard to provide an answer of how long it would take to notice any results. If your axolotl is impacted, then a rock is causing a block and may not come out at all.

Is your Axolotl still eating and acting normally?

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If you read my posts, your questions will be answered.

The people on here are not vets, just experienced keepers.
They are trying to help you for the sake of your axolotl.

I suggest you start saving up so your axolotl can get the care it requires.
I also suggest you dont take peoples help for granted.

Mel

CrazyBirdLady said:

If you read my posts, your questions will be answered.

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It has been 4 days since your last post, which I asked was it STILL acting and eating normally.

I don't see why you are so confrontational/rude towards people trying to give you a hand.

melfly said:

The people on here are not vets, just experienced keepers.
They are trying to help you for the sake of your axolotl.

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I realize this. However, since bloat seems common, I thought some people might have some experience treating it at home.

melfly said:

I suggest you start saving up so your axolotl can get the care it requires.

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As soon as I find work, that is on the list of things to save up for. I am currently unemployed and living off the charity of my parents. That charity does not extend to Widget. Since I live in CA, and did not save the reciept when I bought her before the ban, it is not legal for me to transfer ownership of her to someone better-off.

melfly said:

I also suggest you dont take peoples help for granted.

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I do not, and I apologize for giving you a poor impression of myself.

Shizeric said:

It has been 4 days since your last post, which I asked was it STILL acting and eating normally.

I don't see why you are so confrontational/rude towards people trying to give you a hand.

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You asked a couple of things that had been covered in my previous posts, not just about eating or acting normally, so I felt it was likely you had not read them. I sincerely thought I had included the sentence "she still has no appetite" in my last post, but I must have deleted it accidentally. I apologize for the mistake.

Guarded good news today.

I re-read through many of the health-related articles here on Caudata.org. Based on information there I decided to try a salt solution (1 tsp per L). Widget's swelling has gone down significantly. I realize this is stressful and not something to do long-term, and may be treating the symptoms and not the cause, but she seems much more herself today, and even ate a small red wiggler. She had shown no interest in food for two weeks, but today she pounced on her worm within minutes. I hope it may help move things along in her gut.

She is nearly her normal size. Here are some comparison pictures:
Before:


After:

That's great news . To be honest I can see your point about a vet, around here they are very expensive and wouldn't know much about axolotls. Still it wouldn't hurt to get a quote I guess.

Good to hear that the little one is improving.

OH MY! poor baby! i hope she gets better.