Illness/Sickness: HELP! No one is really eating and 2 are dead!?

keq · Jun 7, 2010

I have/had 6-2 inch juveniles temporarily in an uncycled 10 gallon tank. They are moving to a 20 gallon long later this week. I've been checking the water daily and doing 20% changes.

The water has been about 18-19 C the last few days.
ph = 6.8
Ammonia = 0.5ppm before 20% water change
Nitrite = 0ppm
Nitrate = 0ppm

I removed the sand earlier this week and since no one has moved around much. Usually when I drop in the food they immediately strike them but not lately... I haven't seen them eat much at all but figured they were eating during the night. I just walked in and found 1 floating. I also found 2 that were not moving AT ALL even when I would use the turkey baster to squirt a little air near them. I haven't seen too much tail curl or forward gills and I had no idea this was coming. I probably should have worried since I haven't seen much eating going on.

My worst nightmare. I feel awful. I kept 18 for a long time with no fatalities in individual containers with full water changes each day. This week I was finally going to get to rehome 1 to my friend and 2 to a guy from the forum and be left with 3 and hopefully raise 2 to adulthood and then transfer them to a 40 gallon breeder.

Please help me!

keq · Jun 7, 2010

I am going to put them in the fridge but I know it slows down their metabolisms and they won't eat. I don't want them to die of starvation.

Okay, two seem to be moving after a short time in the fridge. Upon close inspection one has gill shrinkage (the two large photos at the end). The other two have their gills curled all the way forward. Here are some crappy photos but you can see their size and belly size and such.

Also, I removed a few small plants that were in the front of the tank so I can keep an eye on the other 3.

daniellog · Jun 7, 2010

I'm not a huge expert or anything but when their gills are pointing forward this is a sign they are unwell and stressed about something. With my axies its usually the quality of the water, once I do a 100% change they go back to normal.

You are using some type of dechlorinator in the water right? and what are you feeding them?

keq · Jun 7, 2010

The one I was SURE was dead... "Blackie" the melanoid is now moving a tiny bit. He was upside down so I just flipped him over with a plastic spoon. It seems like he is having seizures. The other two are moving seem are responding to stimuli, just barely. I am going to leave them alone and try and sleep a bit (finals week starts tomorrow).

PLEASE if you have any ideas on what I can do, let me know.

Thank you.

keq · Jun 7, 2010

Hi Dan,

Thank you for trying to help.

I am using a dechlorinator/dechloraminator before adding the water to the tank. I am trying to cycle the tank so I've conflicting advice on how much water to change. I do think I am going to change some more tonight because it is more important that they are well than that my tank cycles RIGHT now. I am feeding them blackworms.

update: I just changed around 75% of the water to see if that helps the remaining 3 in there.

keq · Jun 7, 2010

Oh no. I can't keep the fridge water about 5 degrees Celsius!

melfly · Jun 7, 2010

What is your tank temp?

They dont look like they haven't been eating but their gills are a little worrying.
I suspect the tem is too hight or the water quality is bad.
Change the water, you dont need to fridge unless you think the temp is too high.

Mel

keq · Jun 7, 2010

Well, I agree that it may be the water quality. They are surfacing more than normal for air too which I read is a sign that there is too much ammonia and not enough air available in the water. Even after almost 20% water change and then a 70-80% water change they are still surfacing for air.

My tank temp is 18 C right now and 18-19 C in general.

Should I really just put the other three back in? I read that the fridge helps them recover and reduces stress?

Thanks,
Kori

blueberlin · Jun 7, 2010

Oh my, they are just tiny wee things!

I would guess it's the ammonia, too. Such little axolotls are not nearly as robust as adults are and I am guessing they are reacting much more quickly to the ammonia than an adult would. What is the temperature in the little containers, is that water also so cool? If so, it might be a good idea after all to keep them in containers and let the tank cycle by itself, at least until they recover. If you do have them in the main aquarium, I think your instinct is right and would do larger water changes to keep the ammonia (and later nitrite) concentrations as low as possible. The tank will cycle anyway.

A side not on feeding - it might be better not to leave food in the tank overnight, but to feed them specifically so you can watch them eat. Remove anything uneaten after about 20 minutes. That way the bloodworms also won't die and foul the water.

I do hope they recover for you.

-Eva

keq · Jun 7, 2010

Okay, well. The temp does stay cooler and more constant in the aquarium.

I will not leave the food in overnight. I have 1 gallon shoebox sized containers that I had them in before. I think I will move them back to those and once I get my 20gallon long up and running see if the increase in volume reduces the ammonia.

I changed 20% of the water yesterday and then 80% last night... and still this morning, 0.5ppm Ammonia.

Thank you! My poor little guys!

blueberlin · Jun 7, 2010

Have you tested your tap water - before and after dechlorination?

-Eva

melfly · Jun 7, 2010

I find it easier with babies to keep them in tubs rather than a tank. Then i can see what they are eating and to make sure no food is left over.
I do full water changes every day or two, depending on the size of the tub.

They are a bit small for fridging I think. I would only fridge a baby if it were a last resort. As Eva says maybe just keep them in the small tubs for a little while.

Mel

keq · Jun 7, 2010

blueberlin said:
Have you tested your tap water - before and after dechlorination?

-Eva

Tested for everything or just chlorine? I don't have a chlorine test kit. I just assumed that the water conditioner worked! Probably a bad assumption!

shoegal · Jun 7, 2010

I would hypothesize that the sudden onset of illness was caused by water quality issues (specifically ammonia). I would do a 100% water change but not place them in the fridge. I believe that the axies were spending more time at the surface as a result of the ammonia spike.

When I raised baby axies, I kept each one in its own Tupperware container and did 100% water changes every day. That method worked extemely well for me.

I really hope your little guys recover! Keep us posted on their progress.

keq · Jun 7, 2010

melfly said:
I find it easier with babies to keep them in tubs rather than a tank. Then i can see what they are eating and to make sure no food is left over.
I do full water changes every day or two, depending on the size of the tub.

They are a bit small for fridging I think. I would only fridge a baby if it were a last resort. As Eva says maybe just keep them in the small tubs for a little while.

Mel

Yes, that is what I was doing before but I wanted to put them in the tank while I was gone for temperature control and water change ease. Back in the tubs they go. Is there an easier way than removing them for water changes that will be less stressful? I scoop them up with a 1/2 cup measure and leave them in the mug while they I change the water (only takes a minute).

Thanks for the help.

What a sad, long night. I had my first fatality and of course, it was Blackie... my favorite one.

I have one more that isn't doing well. I got out my camera which is somewhat broken but takes better photos so I can better show his gills.

keq · Jun 7, 2010

shoegal said:
I would hypothesize that the sudden onset of illness was caused by water quality issues (specifically ammonia). I would do a 100% water change but not place them in the fridge. I believe that the axies were spending more time at the surface as a result of the ammonia spike.

When I raised baby axies, I kept each one in its own Tupperware container and did 100% water changes every day. That method worked extemely well for me.

I really hope your little guys recover! Keep us posted on their progress.

Thank you. I agree. They are in the small containers now and still frequently going for air? I am going to keep an eye on it and see how it goes. How did you swap the 100% water each day? My way is extremely stressful!

I am really emotional right now and I think that it should be pretty easy to convince my significant other to do several 1 gallon water changes for the 2 months I am gone to avoid another mishap. By the time I get back the new tank (20 gallon long) should be cycled and ready to go!

keq · Jun 7, 2010

Also, does anyone know if AP Pro Genesis is a safe dechlorinator/dechloraminator for Axolotls? I think it probably is since I used it for 100% water changes for all 18 for 2 months without any issue but a second opinion would be nice. Now I am worried about EVERYTHING!

blueberlin · Jun 7, 2010

keq said:
Tested for everything or just chlorine? I don't have a chlorine test kit. I just assumed that the water conditioner worked! Probably a bad assumption!

No, I mean trest it like you test your aquarium water. In my last apartment I had nitrites and nitrates in my tap water - which meant something organic, which was yucky to think about. It also meant that I could never get my nitrate down below 50. It also meant that the water in the tank was better than the water from the tap. :lame:

I would assume the dechorinator works, too.

-Eva

keq · Jun 7, 2010

Also, thank you! I could really hug you all right now.

keq · Jun 7, 2010

blueberlin said:
No, I mean trest it like you test your aquarium water. In my last apartment I had nitrites and nitrates in my tap water - which meant something organic, which was yucky to think about. It also meant that I could never get my nitrate down below 50. It also meant that the water in the tank was better than the water from the tap. :lame:

I would assume the dechorinator works, too.

-Eva

No, I haven't tested it before treating it. I just assumed that the dechlorinator only treated the chlorine and the nitrites and nitrates would appear post treatment. I will go test my tap water right now!!

Illness/Sickness: HELP! No one is really eating and 2 are dead!?

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