Very stressed over junior.

Hi guys, how is everyone? For started my axolotls name is junior
Just wondering, I've just revived a present of an axolotl which I love!
I've had it for 2 weeks and for the last week it has not been eating one bit.
The food I have is Hikari sinking pellets. I have spent hours holding the pellet next to its mouth but it was not interested... I have dropped it between its eyes close to its mouth over a dozen times... I have even left a pellet on a rock for it to eat.... No success.
I hate to say it but I think it may be dieing, I really like him too.
My tank is quite small, about 45c m long and 25 cm high. I have cores coral sand in the tank which I have layered on top with stones which I have washed. I did this because it was a pain to collect the un eaten pellet and I don't want him to ingest the sand while eating.
I was watching him the other day and I saw him do the most crazy thing, please bare with me its very difficult to explain..
I saw him have a 'fit' like experience where he kept ingesting water and his whole body was shaking, it started off quite minor but escalated to a point where I thought it was dead. This had me very stressed. I just want it to survive and live a life!
What can I do? PLEASE HELP SOMEONE.

ps. Sorry for the long message.
My e mail is king_dazza@hotmail.com

Pellets sometimes are received readily...try bloodworms or earthworms..you should also get a larger tank as soon as possible.

Coral also causes alkalinity issues and should be replaced.

Can you provide a picture of your Axolotl/Tank?

How big are the stones in your tank? Are they smaller than your axolotl's head? If they are then it might be that he has swallowed them and is impacted which might be the reason he is not eating.

It sounds like you could have some alkaline issues in your water from your coral.
Definitely try feeding him bloodworms and post some pictures.

Hi Daz,

You need to go have a good read here mate, it has everything you need to know - Axolotls: The Fascinating Mexican Axolotl and the Tiger Salamander

Pay particular attention to the housing requirments. We'll wait while you go read............ are you still here? Why? GO!

Ok, you're back? Good

Couple of things you have going on and against you at this point -

* Substrate - coral sand comes from coral, coral comes from the sea, Axies don't. So coral sand is no good.

* Rocks - must be bigger in all ways than the axies head - if they were people, they could swallow a basketball - where did you get the stones from? if it's from the garden or some such, they could be causing water issues, even if you did wash them- better to just take out for now

so 1 - get rid of the substrate and go bare tank.

* Pellets & feeding - you need to collect the uneaten pellets or any other uneaten food after 10-15 minutes even if it is a pain - it will cause water quality problems.

Try earthworms - get a big peice of cardboard, wet it down, and place it on top of a nice big bit of fertile ground in the garden - next morning, you should lift it and find worms easily

A nice wriggly worm might get that bite reflex happening

* The tank - it's a little on the small size, but for one only axie will be survivable - i've heard that a small tank can be harder to maintain water quality and temp etc

* Water quality - If you have only had him for two weeks, i assume you've only had the tank set up for that time. Have you had fish before? Do you know wht the nitrogen cycle is?

lets assume you do, your tank is probably not cycled, and if you havent been changing 20% of the water per day, then you probably have a build up of yukky stuff your axie doesnt like

So, if you have no idea what i'm referring to as "the cycle" - search for "Nitrogen cycle" on here and google to learn about it.

* What is your tank set up? Do you have a filter? An air stone? A hide for the axie (no eyelids, don't like the light, right? ) Any tank mates?

* Finally, do you have a test kit? Can you measure the -

Ammonia
Nitrites
Nitrates
PH
GH
KH
Temp

For us?

If not, take a water sample to your local fish store and they can test it for you

Let us know what they are.

Hope the axie site gave you a good start and some info to start with

Bren

Thanks for the help guys!

Thanks guys for the responses, in particular Bren. It was very helpful!
Well all the pebbles I got are bigger than his head.

The filter I've got has a flow of 380L/h. I can guarantee that my tank is less than 50 liters.

This filter was the smallest one I could find in all the pet shops around my area. I have adjusted it so the water is directed onto the class to lessen impact. I've had the tank for as long as I've had him- 2 weeks.

Ahh I tried to upload some images, but it said they couldn't be uploaded. Therefore they are uploaded under my Albums.

Oh yeah the tank mates are:
2 golden snails, cause no conflict and I have seen 1 devour Juniors poop.
1 'fighter fish' again causes no conflict. It adds colour and character to the tank, in my opinion anyways haha.

Re: Thanks for the help guys!

get rid of the sustrate, the coral sand can be causing PH issues

the tank is too small for an axie and a fish, maybe the fish is stressing him

first of all, take off that substrate, go bare bottom, easy to clean and you can control if he eats, poops, etc

take off the filter, it may be causing a lot of water movement, you have to be more careful without a filter, make more water changes because probably your tank is not cycled and if you remove the substrate you'll go into a cycle again, just make sure you do daily water changes (try to get a test kit to check on the parameters daily until the tank is cycled) or if you can't make about 10% water changes everyday at least for a month and remove wastes as you see them

how big is the axie?

Hi Dazza,

Sorry to say it but tank mates unless axies are a no no and really not advised for a number of reasons including impaction (snails) and fish can pick on gills & also fish and snails cause a lot of waste. I also agree with the above recommendations and would def say your tank is too small you axie is probably board as there is nothing for him/her to do or anywhere to go its the equivelent of you being stuck in a really small room. You need at least 1 hidey hole and some plants would be nice for your axies to explore and also hide if he/she feels the need.

Sorry to post a load of negatives I am sure you are trying your best otherwise you would not be on here but look at the links people have posted & take note a lot of these people have had axies for years and know them well.

Wishing you the best of luck :happy:

Okay I have been to the pet store today and he advised me to replace the water. So just now I have filled a bucket of water and I'm going to leave it for 24 hours before replacing it.

I will be able to test ammonia, Nitrate, KH, GH, PH, temperature for you.

Ahh since I don't have a heater... The water on the top is warmer than the bottom, just thought I would add that in

Thanks a lot guys, I will get back to you guys real soon, I really appreciate the help!

You wont need a heater mate, in fact in an aussie summer you might even need a chiller

Ideal temp 16-20 celc
Ideal PH 7.2
Ideal ammonia - 0 (but you wont get that until the cycle is complete)
Ideal Nitrites 0 (again, when the cycle is done)
Ideal Nitrates less than 40 - less than 20 is better
GH - 160
KH - Not really that relevant to fresh water but may indicate a swinging ph problem if it's too low or high, might indicate you need a buffer of some sort, but if the PH is steady dont worry too much about that

Do a 10-20 % water change every day if your cycle is not complete, and get your own test kit asap, as well as a thermometer

how's the overall look / feel of your guy at the moment?

Bren

Wow thanks a lot mate, really appreciate it. I copy and pasted that info to my computer that way I can access it quickly

As for Junior, his still not eating, after another 45 min attempt today... I'm still quite worried..

As for the cycle, once I replace the water with water that I left for 24 hours, do I need to make 10% changes every day? And for how long?

Also, my filter has been working non stop for the last two weeks, it has dramatically reduced in its impact power (don't know what else to call it ) as in the output of water is much slower. So should I clean my filter before I put in the 'aged' water tomorrow? This has been causing me quite a bit of confusion.

Oh yeah and for the thermometer, where do I put it? On the top of water, bottom or middle? I say this because the top bit of the tank water is warmer than the bottom.

Sorry for all the questions, you guys probably want to bash me for not knowing anything

Thanks again, everyones help is really appreciated, in particular Bren
(I'm not playing favorites by the way hahaha)

If its a canister filter, it might get an air bubble in it and need priming, switch it off, prime it to get the air out, switch it back on.

Check the impellar is not gunked up - check the filter instructions for maintenance

Dont "strip" the filter, use only tank water to rinse the bits

Yes, change 10-20 % water every day while cycling - this could take 4-6 weeks

Thermometer under the water, usually they stick to the side, id stick it where its warmer if it is that different

B

Welcome to the world of axolotls!

I'm reasonably new at this too, but here's my 2ps worth from what I've observed from my two.

Zoe has said this too, but from an interior design point of view, perhaps your axie is feeling a bit exposed there? The pet shop I got them from gave poor advice and I ended up with a very bare, brightly lit, gravel-bottomed tank. Even being brand new at it, I could tell they really were not happy. Chester in particular would get very very freaked out, and twist about the tank in fear because he/she had nowhere to chill out. So I bought more plants and logs and made them a jungle. They seem to love exploring small dark places and spend most of their time clambering up plants, and relaxing under the canopy ^_^

At the same time, Roscoe is a swimmer. He'll happily swim swim about for hours, so I've left space at the front of the tank for him to stretch his, umm, legs?

Regarding feeding, mine didn't eat for a few days once, and I only had frozen food, so took to flicking it about with a long chopstick to make it seem alive. That sure worked, only now they get really excited when the chopstick goes in to move something! Not sure this would work with pellets, this was bloodworm.

I'm already aware that my tank is going to need to be replaced soon, and your axie looks like he might appreciate some more space, and some places for axolotl adventures. Bigger tanks I am now aware a far easier to maintain temperature and good parameters, so perhaps its just something as simple as making Juniors habitat more spacious, and natural, if such a thing exists in a tank in a house!

But as I say, this is just going by my observations no real science, I'm afraid!

Hi guys, it's Dazza again.

So I have gotten rid of all tank mates and all substrate, so now its just Junior on a glass bottom tank.
The filter has been clean and is currently off. I have replaced the old water with 24 hour aged water. I am currently aging more so I can further fill tank which is currently filled half way.

During this process I took out Junior and placed him into bucket. I broke a tablet of blood worms into small easily bite size pieces for him. He didn't touch it at all. It dissolved and sat at the bottom of the bucket until I removed it about 45 minutes later.

After that attempt, I tried to feed it a pellet, no such luck once again!

So this is really stressing me out to the point of me thinking about returning him back to the pet store, which I really don't want to do...

One other thing, since I put him back into the tank with the aged water, he has been doing some really strange behavior... It looks like he is taking in water through his mouth, looks like the equivalent of us having 'hiccups'. This has added to my stress. I really want him to eat something.

I tried to gather earthworms with damp cardboard.... No worms.... I seem to be having the best luck.... I hope he isn't sick. Help is needed please.

Thanks to everyone who have been helping me thus far. I have uploaded pictures of the tank now into my personal album.

I would cover the bottom with paper towels - a bare glass bottom can be stressful. Also, as someone pointed out, they like places to hide. You can use PVC pipe to give him places to get away when he wants too. Hopefully this will reduce his stress and encourage him to eat.

It could also be your filter was too strong for a small tank - any signs of a curled tail or forward gills? Its probably better that its off for now as long as you do regular water changes to keep it clean and aerated.

What is the temperature? In such a small tank, the water temp can fluctuate faster which could also be a problem. If you don't have money for a big tank, you could use a large plastic tub which are pretty cheap and would help stabilize the temperature and all the other parameters as it cycles.

I would see if you can order some other types of food - like newt pellets and troutworms/earthworms. Keep offering the bloodworms - a chopstick or forceps work great to make them move like they're alive to entice them. Can you find out what the petstore was feeding him?

hi dazza
If you need small earthworms Bunnings has a earthworm farm set up kit and the worms in there are small but you have to soak them some axies dont like them(mine dont eat worms they only eat pellets and bloodworms). Try feeding him at night with the lights dim, just another thought.

I have a towel over one half of my tank because I have 1 axie that likes to hide from the world sometimes, i also have black plastic around 3 sides of my tank. Someone(im sorry not sure who it was) on here has a coffee mug as a hide which is a good/cheap idea i thought.

Keep battling your way through,they are worth it. Junior will love you forever and you will love him. They are truly wonderful animals.
sorry for the long post
lea

Yeah, he needs somewhere to hide mate.

I guess we need to think about where they come from in the wild - A dark, cold, murky watered, sand floored lake, with plants, roots and stones to hide under and around.

Long term the tank is too small now i've seen it. Short term if you can get some PVC pipe for him to hide in will help him settle, he's probably stressed.

When you say you had 24 hr old water, does that mean you didn't treat it with an ager? if so, you need to know that leaving water age for 24 hours will let chlorine evaporate, but it wont get rid of Chloramines, you should get some chemical ager just to be sure.

Can you get a large plastic tub from kmart with a lid so you can get him in a cool dark place to settle him?

Bren

Thanks for the great help! The glass is stressing him out, your right.

I have taken Junior out of the glass tank and put him into the plastic tub. I have used the same water from the glass tank to put into the plastic tub. Should I put in sand into the tub? If so, what kind of sand would you guys recommend?

Also, The water level is just above his head, I don't have any cash for de-chloroniser So how long do you recommend I age new water?

I am currently looking for some piping, I have like no resources at my place haha.

I think I will go to bunnings and get the worm farm, that was also a great idea!

The problem still remains..... Junior has not eaten in 1 week and 2 days... So far.

Now he sits on the bottom on all four legs with his tail raised high, so high in-fact it pases through the water. Is this a sign of death?

I do have the filter on at the moment.

I will post pictures of the new set up in my personal album, for any improvements you guys recommend.

Thanks again for the help, I will keep in touch, and let you guys know about the ph levels and the rest of it.

Any other suggestions for food?

to be honest, a plastic tub is not place where an axie can live, not a grown up axie, and he needs more water

if you do not use dechlorinator, that could be causing the problem actually is like living in a whole toxic environment that you can't leave, no wonder he's stressed....

the filter is probably too much for a plastic tube and making a lot of mess there, stressing him even more

earthworms are the best, otherwise try bloodworm, axolotl pellets (or tetra reptomin) but I think he's not eating because he's being held in the worst conditions

the raised tail is a bad sign, please post pictures

maybe you should consider if its worth keeping him if you cannot afford to give him what he needs, sorry for the bad news

Thanks a lot for the reply there mate, really appreciated.

Tomorrow I am going to go try to buy de-chloronise which hopefully will reduce stress dramatically.

The filer I got is 'perfect for tanks for 50-110 Liters', I plan to fill the plastic tub to 50 liters or close to it. Hopefully this again will reduce stress dramatically.

I'm looking into earthworms, I will go to a store and see if I can kind a farm in which I can keep at home and grow a colony. If he eats them then he will keep getting them. On that note, are Earthworms a sufficient staple diet for him? Or is it just used as a snack. I have read multiple notes on the net and they both have opposing information, I was hoping someone with experience could tell me, I think thats the safest and best way to do things.

Thanks again for the reply mate, appreciate the honesty.