Axolotl surgery?

Anyone with info, I would greatly appreciate it. My daughter's axolotl swallowed 2 huge rocks & 1 small one. We did an xray to confirm. Now we're planning on surgery tomorrow.... I am worried! Any knowledge would be helpful! Thanks!

Do it yourself?

Good name by the way, i dont meet many Brens

Bren

Are you taking the axolotl to a vet for the rock removal?

I am working with a phenomenal exotic vet. However, she has never come across this particular situation: rock removal from an axie stomach... The 2 large rocks are ridiculously large, and you could never imagine any possible way that he managed to swallow them, but he did.

He is currently resting in the fridge.

Yesterday we tried to mildly sedate him & grab them manually, but we were completely unsuccessful, and it seems that one or more of them may have adhered.

My question to the members of this forum is whether or not anyone knows of axies who have lived with rocks for any period of time... He is still (prior to fridging that is) active & eating. But the rocks were so huge (deliberate so he couldn't swallow them) you could see the bulge in his abdomen. These will not pass. They are stuck in the stomach.

The question we are faced with is to risk surgery in the first place (which I can't seem to come up with any reference whatsoever online.) We know that this may be his only chance. The exotic vet has fish surgery experience, but I was doing what I could to acquire as much axie-specific knowledge as possible. Most of the "fish surgeries" refer to tumors being removed.... This will be done in a full veterinary operating room. I will try to get the picture of the xray from the vet clinic and post it on here for everyone to see. It is an amazing (but devastating) picture, and a perfect commercial for avoiding all rocks as substrate, even ones that are seemingly way too large to be ingested....

His name is Neptune. I will be taking him in tomorrow morning 1/10 around 9 a.m. Pacific time. (about 12-1/2 hours from now. I know some of you are all around the world.) We live in Seattle, Washington, and are blessed to have many wonderful exotic vets in the area.

If no one has any info, please just hope for a chance for little Neptune!

Here is his picture, from last July.

Everything i've heard is that no, they can not live long term with rocks inside. Eventually they will cause a fatal blockage.

But the rocks were so huge (deliberate so he couldn't swallow them)

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You already know this, but basd on the rocks in the picture you put up, no, the rocks were / are no where near big enough. I hope you have taken all the rocks out and are going bare tank or sand now.

Rocks have to be bigger than the axies whole head to be safe. If we could swallow what they could on the same scale we'd probably be able to eat a basketball whole.

The question we are faced with is to risk surgery in the first place

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Again, i havent had to deal with this situation, and it can really only be up to you.

Yes, of course surgery is a risk, and he might not survive, but he will almost certainly not survive long term with large rocks ingested

* No surgery - may survive for while, but eventually may have to be euthanised
* Surgery - risky and also expensive i would imagine - but probably the only way to survive long term
* Euthanise now.

Not a great choice which ever way you look at it from where i'm sitting.

A local freind took hers to the vet, paid a couple of hundred dollars for surgery, a lot to spend in anyones books for a risky surgery.

Her axie pulled through fine (and was my axies dad, so thats good )

I'd say that if you are happy to spend the money, surgery is probably the best choice. Other than that, humane euthanasia - i personally don't see leaving the status quo as a good option.

i hope it works out well for the little guy

Bren

http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be.../f58-sick-axolotl/68478-large-rock-belly.html
check out this thread

Thank you for sharing that thread! That picture is impressive. But make the rock even bigger, and add one more that is equally big, & even another littler one & you have the situation we are faced with....

Just an important learning lesson on the axie's swallowing capabilities.... My dauguhter got Neptune in June 2010.

The "manual" method that worked so well with her axie, Shamrock, was what we spent 2 hours at the vet's office doing yesterday. However, we all came to the conclusion that at least one of them has adhered to the stomach wall, and we didn't want to risk the excessive stress & potential of internal rupture. We tried to "scoot" them up the digestive tract, but they just wouldn't budge....

So the plan is to go in surgically. I am glad to hear that an axie has survived such a surgery. I think they have an excellent chance with their exceptional regeneration capabilities. Finger crossed & lots of prayers... He may end up with an axie Gastic Bypass of some sort... The vet won't know until she gets in there.

I really appreciate this forum & all of the great advice you have on here. Thank you everyone for responding so quickly!

And yes, I know cost is involved, but we are committed to our family members..

Gah, silly axolotls!

It's really good to hear to are investing in the vet to take care of the little guy though. I hope everything goes well.

Is there any chance you can get a copy of the X-ray? I know the other tummyrock photo is used a lot as a way of showing people just how dangerous rocks can be, and your pics could definitely help reinforce that message.

Fngers crossed

Please keep us updated! And if it's possible, a photo-series would be a phenomenal addition to our library of resources. Good luck!!

Yes, I will definitely take photos & post them for everyone. Hopefully I'll update with good news late in the afternoon...

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for your little one, Bren! I hope Neptune pulls through, and it's heartwarming to know that there are responsible, caring axolotl owners out there like you. Good luck!

Re: Great news for Neptune!

Neptune survived surgery & is back at home resting!

The rocks are completely out.

Overnight (in the fridge) he managed to pass the smallest rock on his own.

We used MS-222 as anesthesia until he was asleep (it took quite a bit to achieve that.) He was laid on his back on a foam board & I had the job of using a 3ml syringe to squirt water into his mouth nonstop throughout the surgery (which took about 10 minutes once he was under.) His stomach & belly were sutured, but once everything was done, he was unresponsive. We put him in the fridge, hoping he'd wake. He didn't. He actually was "dead" for an hour. (They checked him in the fridge & he was upside-down with his mouth gaping open.) A rockstar vet tech took him out of the fridge, & put the container on her desk. She prodded at him a bit, & then miraculously he began to breathe once he warmed up.
I have many pictures to post!

The rocks weighed a total of 9 grams.

Here are more pictures!

The 1st one is of the operating set-up: one tub of spring water for recovery, one tub of spring water to add MS-222 to for anesthesia; and the foam board (covered in plastic) over a grate over a sink (to drain all the water we continuously were squirting into his mouth.)

The 2nd: recognize the rocks? Silly axolotl!

The final one is after surgery (his sutures are disolveable & bright purple.)

glad to hear he made it through! the pictures aren't working though, I'm very curious to see them

I think the pictures wouldn't post... I'll try again.

more pics

more pics

carsona246 said:

glad to hear he made it through! the pictures aren't working though, I'm very curious to see them

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Yep....tried to re-post them (& actually wait for them to upload.)

Neptune weighed 45 grams, 9 grams of that being rock.... So now he is a svelte 36 g.

Oh my goodness!! That's a miracle he lived.. Keep a close eye on him! So glad he made it through..