Illness/Sickness: Sick Axolotl In A Zoo HELP PLEASE!!!!

I took my children today to a very well respected zoo for a fun family day out and that it was until my son stumbled across an axolotl in very poor living conditions! To say I was upset & angry is an understatement! I would like to give you guys as much detail as possible but until I have resolved this with the zoo do not want to name and shame at the moment as the situation is delicate to say the least!

I waited until the exhibit was closing as I wanted to meet the keeper who was in charge of this exhibit and when I did I had a few choice words to say to him, apart from telling him how awful the axolotls aquarium was here were the points I raised with him.

1) The axolotl had very visible green sores on it (as pictured and ringed in the smaller photo, apologies for the quality but some were taken on my camera others on my mobile).
2) The aquarium had a very high water flow rate with a very powerful flow at the top of the tank.
3) The aquarium was covered from top to bottom in algae / hair algae.
4) There were no good hides.
5) The temperature seemed high in the tank.
6) The axies gills were short and stumpy.
7) I asked what the axies diet was.
8) I asked what medication the axie was receiving.
9) The lights were too bright.

Here were the answers I received...

1) I was told the axolotl had TB and that 2 of the animals/amphibians that had been with it had died, he was in quarantine (the keeper would not state what had been living with the axie)
2) Was told the filter had just been cleaned.
3) This appeared after some plants went.
4) Did not have much to say on that.
5) Was told that particular room was kept at 20, but the room next to it was at 24, also the tank was against a wall which was cold (rooms were seperated by plastic hanging strips from a ceiling so not sure how good those are for keeping one room one temp and another different!!!!).
6) Did not have much to say on this.
7) Mussels & frozen fish & other frozen foods.
8) Interpet medication but could not remember exactly what one.
9) agreed.

Here is how I answered...

1) I told the keeper the axies home was not only very poor but the water conditions were not satisfactory, I suggested the axie would have a better chance of getting better if it was in some cold dechlorinated water somewhere quiet, dark & clean to give her the best chance of getting better! I was told this was not possible and this was the quarantine tank for her as they had no where else to put her.
2) Repeated what I had said, the flow of water was far too fast and strong and was stressing the axie out and was probably the cause of its stumpy gills, that and the poor water/living conditions.
3) I said the algae must have been there for a long while as there was so much of it plus the lights were probably a big cause of its growth.
4) Told the keeper that axies like somewhere to hide, there was a part of a bit of the rock he could but considering the light not really adequate.
5) Could not do much about that as no thermometer but 20 was obviously acceptable if that was the correct temperature.
6) As per 2, again water flow, diet, water conditions.
7) Asked him whether the axie was fed earthworms, was told yes BUT she did not eat live foods as her eyesight was bad, told him this was quite normal and it was the movement the axies sensed and that earthworms were the staple diet and very much needed!!
8) Not 100% on this one but said there were very few fish medicines that could be used to treat an axolotl and did not think Interpet was a safe medicine but as he did not know the name could not check, this had been done under a vets recommendation supposedly.
9) Said axies did not have eyelids so did not like bright lights, keeper agreed.

So if you have not fallen asleep and after all of the above I explained to the guy that I was very concerned and was going to be following the above conversation up with a letter to the zoo. I was told in a round about way to be careful! The axie which I was told was a he (i told the guy I was pretty sure he was a she) was 12 years old and had TB and if there were too many problems it would be euthanized! Now this upset me greatly as this axie is not being given a chance to even get better due to its awful conditions and the fact that this zoo who runs a conservation programme cannot be bothered to help this animal makes me angry!!! I explained to the keeper I would be more than happy to take the axolotl home myself and to do my best by her to get her better as the way things are going I am guessing she wont last long in these conditions and with her health problems.

So having already spoken to a moderator on here about TB in axies (have been told unlikely) I would be interested in anyones help and ideas on whats wrong with the axie.

The keeper was very embarrassed when I spoke to him for the half an hour as it was clear they were doing most things wrong and I appreciate the fact that at least the guy had the decency to hear me out and also wanted to help me help the axie. He has taken my name, number & email address and is going to contact me in the next 2 days to see what he can sort. I do not want to kick up too much of a stink at the moment in the worry it will be euthanized but will also have no problem in naming & shaming if something does not get done for this old lady!

She has lived there for 12 years and it saddens me that this is how she is being treated now!

So any ideas on the green sores she has?? Is fridging her the best option and what treatments would you use on her?

My hubby (bless his heart) has already said I can keep her IF the zoo agrees to let her go (am guessing this will be a hard battle) so am hoping you lovely caudata people can help me help her!!

Also for anyone that saw this axie and did not know what one was what a poor poor example to show people!! It was a visit to a local zoo to me that got me hooked on these amphibians I had never seen one before and was mesmerised so much so I jotted down the name axolotl, well that was 2 years ago and as soon as I had some space and a tank well my passion for axies was born!!! I was fascinated by some comments I heard from people describing this axie and also shocked! She is not a looker bless her due to all these green sores but under that you can tell she is a beauty and is she a wild or melanoid ??

Thanks for your time and help! Zoe

Oh the poor thing!

Those green sores look nasty! I'm guessing here, but perhaps this is a result of algae growth on her body.Since theres algae everywhere else, and no proper place for her to hide from the light perhaps it is possible that the algae has started to grow in places she's having difficulty rubbing off. I notice from where you circled they are mostly down one side of her body, and this is the side exposed in the last two pictures when she's hiding. (I think algae growth can occur also as a secondary infection in fish, not sure about axies so I could be completely wrong here as fish and axies are two very different beings!)

I imagine if thats the case, removing the bright light would go a long way towards fixing the problem. As well as some good hides.

I'm glad someones fighting her cause now At least weight wise seem looks okay.

I guess from the zoos point of view re bright lights + insufficient hidey-holes, it's so the public can see the animals, however, they are MEANT to give all their animals as natural a life as possible in captivity.
It might only be 1 little creature in an aquarium building, but that isn't good enough.
As harsh as it may seem, perhaps you should run the risk of euthanasia, as at least then she wouldn't be suffering any more.
If it was me, I'd continue to kick up a fuss + if the zoo's "higher-ups" don't give a satisfactory response, repeat your offer to rehome her. Send photos of your guys, to show how great living conditions should be + how healthy axes should look. Tell them that while their keepers need to have a broad range of the animals in their care, you specialise in axies. Offer to sign paperwork to say that if she survives in your care, you will return her to them when her living conditions are suitable (you understand that they have lots of animals in their care, but isn't each one important, blah, blah, blah)If all else fails, threaten to tarnish their reputation with going to the local newspaper, emphasising their conservation duties + lack of interest in the animals in their care + of course, the RSPCA.
In other words, carry on as you are, being civil, but get increasingly stern. But don't be surprised if she has mysteriously passed "due to natural causes" next time you go

Having said all that, I'm fairly placid when it comes to people wronging me, but if someone wrongs my family or friends, or innocent animals, I do get rather worked up + over-react, so while I'm just adding a voice here, no doubt someone more sensible will give better advice

In addition to the sick animal, I am disturbed by the dirty-looking tank. I don't know of any good zoo that would let a tank look this bad, unless they are seriously understaffed. If this animal has been there for 12 years, they must have been doing things right for most of that time - I wonder if their have been changes to her tank, or changes in staff.

I don't think you should even suggest taking the animal home with you. It's unlikely they would or could allow this. And if they did, you could be putting the rest of your animals in danger if this is something contagious.

I agree with Mojo... if it was me I'd want to rehome the poor thing to somewhere that was better.

However I have to tell a little story of my own... my mum used to have an axi when she was young and basically treated it like a goldfish. Never tested anything and always kept at whatever the room temp was at the time. Still she had it for 10 years before she gave it to the aquarium cause she was moving and couldn't take it with her. I've seen pics of him and he was a healthy looking guy!!! Apparently it even took walks out of the tank when the mood struck.

Just saying that sometimes axi's can be very resilient. Try reasoning first

Thanks to all of you that have replied & heres some responses and an update on my talk this morning with the keeper (sure he was delighted that I called him first thing)!!!

Ok so the good news is after speaking to the keeper this morning is he has rectified the water flow (appears they are using a fluval 205 external in the tank) so its a lot gentler now. He has also changed the lighting, appears a wrong bulb had been put in the tank plus some strip lighting has been removed. Tank temperature was taken and it was 21.

Sadly its only 2 changes so far but the keeper is very willing to listen and is trying his hardest! Have stressed the following to him...

1) Axie needs to be in cold dechlorinated water for the foreseeable future with tea baths or axie safe medication in the water!
2) Have told him again I have a tank waiting at home for the axie and have the time to try and help her if they dont.
3) Have pleaded with him to sort the manky tank out and have again said the axie will not get any better whilst in those awful conditions.

The keeper is off for the next few days but is going to email me with some further news on what is happening and will cc his line manager in! There appears to be a few zoo politics that are holding him back whcih is frustrating!!! I have offered him my full support and am willing to help him with whatever he needs to help the axie so fingers crossed but I get the feeling they dont have the time to do the treatment that is needed, sadly the other 2 axies (i believe to be axies) that had this and were treated both died, why do I have a horrid feeling that its not axie safe medicine


Cas - so hard to say without getting up close and personal with the axie but could well be, have spoken further with the keeper today (called him first thing) and it has been tested as a bacterial sore.

Mojo - Agree regarding hidey holes/lights etc but an only think the bigger animals get a chance to hide at the zoo when they want so why not the axie as the rest of this particular centre had ample hiding places for all the other things on show thing its just an oversight. Completely agree with everything else you have said and am on that very same path trust me

Jennewt - DISGUSTING isn't it! As stated was just so appalled by so many things tank gives the poor axie no chance of ever getting rid of those sores! After speaking to the keeper today am thinking the same that its unlikely they will let me take her home, lets just say that would have been the best case scenario Also would have her nowhere near my guys, would have her fridged in nice clean dechlorinated water and give her tea baths, would see how that went before maybe going down the axie medicine route for bacterial sores)! Would have a tank set up in another part of the house for her, just feel so desperately sorry for her!

Boo - LOL thanks for that

I am so pleased that the zoo is communicating with you, and well done for taking the initiative to pursue this. I know the zoo in question has a very good reputation .
If the axolotl really does have TB, it would be very unwise to take it on, the risk of infection is not just to your other caudates, but your family too.
I'll aim to take a trip there in a few weeks and look in on the axolotl, haven't been there for a good few years.


Found an article about TB in frogs:-
http://www.jstor.org/pss/30108290

bellabelloo said:

I am so pleased that the zoo is communicating with you, and well done for taking the initiative to pursue this. I know the zoo in question has a very good reputation .
If the axolotl really does have TB, it would be very unwise to take it on, the risk of infection is not just to your other caudates, but your family too.
I'll aim to take a trip there in a few weeks and look in on the axolotl, haven't been there for a good few years.


Found an article about TB in frogs:-
JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

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Just had an email back from the keeper Julia and cant tell you how pleased I am to know you will be going down there Will forward email on to you & repost here :happy:

After speaking to the guy this morning about TB he said he should not have said that and used the term lightly and said it was more bacterial! Thanks read the same article as you and saw the potential dangers :happy:

Here is the email I have receieved from the zoo (names again have been left off)

Dear Mrs Young,
Thank you for raising your concerns about our Axolotl (born April 2002 on show in the Discovery Centre since October 2005), on your visit of the 12.03.11.

I would just like to put your mind at rest that your concerns are being dealt with.

• Firstly as explained at the time the water temperature is that of the ambient air temperature of the room and you will have seen that the different areas of the building were separated with thermal curtains. Within those area’s Air conditioning units control not only the rooms behind the scenes but also the public viewing corridors, and this corridor is set at 20oc. With the pump and lights the temp can get a degree or so higher but the whole idea of putting that exhibit there was that it is against an outside North east facing, shaded, unheated wall that never gets the sun on it. So too high a temperature is not an issue.
• Also explained at the time and again this morning on the phone the external filter had just been cleaned out and therefore was running at its full capacity, usually slowing down somewhat after a few hours. However as explained on the phone this morning the water flow has now been turned down further.
• Regarding the lighting, a slightly higher wattage spot light and a small grow lux tube had been put in on a time switch to come on for a few hours a day to encourage the Cryptocoryne plant growth as after a recent trimming down we had had a significant plant die of. This is something that does tend to happen seasonally and the Axolotl has certainly been used to it over the last 6 years. However now that the plants have had their kick start the lights will be turned down/ off.
• To cater for growing plants and exhibiting Axolotl, the design of the back drop of the exhibit incorporates an open cave where the Axolotl can hide and feel secure while at the same time be seen by our visitors. Although I must say she now seems happy to use all of her tank at different times of the day.
• She has a very hearty appetite of both live and frozen (thawed foods as explained) rarely refusing a meal
• She does have a problem with the patches on her skin and over the years various treatments have contained them but never actually totally eliminated them. However she has been in expert hands with our vets.(Yes I agree not Axolotl experts)

Although I am off for the next two days, on my return I shall Endeavour to get her moved to an isolation tank where she can get specific treatment .
I am very interested in the tea treatment that you have mentioned and would obviously be interested in any further suggestions.

Its very encouraging to see the zoo communicating and (at least trying to) cooperate in fixing the attrocious conditions the little one is being held in. Hopefully your continued advice and expertise won"t fall on deaf ears and you can make a big differnece in her life!

Got to say, I'm impressed with them addressing all of the points you brought up. They MUST have somewhere behind the scenes for her, though I guess they might not have the correct temperature / filter e.t.c. there. If they can get her into a quarantine tank though, THAT would be the best time to kick start the plants, LoL!
Keep us updated

memojo1979 said:

Got to say, I'm impressed with them addressing all of the points you brought up. They MUST have somewhere behind the scenes for her, though I guess they might not have the correct temperature / filter e.t.c. there. If they can get her into a quarantine tank though, THAT would be the best time to kick start the plants, LoL!
Keep us updated

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Thanks Mojo. Yes its very positive and I am pleased and the fact he is willing to listen to alternative treatments is encouragign as the fact the other 2 have died makes me worry that its because they have been using fish medicines rather than axie safe ones!

Dont worry will keep you fully updated :happy:

Ok here is another update for you from the keeper at the zoo. I sent him a long email with instructions and info on the tea baths & also what medicines were safe for the axolotl and this is the outcome. :happy:

Hi Zoe,
Thanks for info.
Nice pics of your Axolotls.
Regarding ours, have managed to get our vet to get personally interested, rather than just treat it as "routine" So on top of the usual salt water treatment we have now had swabs taken and a small biopsy. Our vet nurse is also keen to try the tea treatment. Frustratingly in the scientific world we are not allowed to treat anything without a firm diagnosis. However hopefully this will happen any day soon.
Thanks again,

Ta for the update. Looking positive :happy:

I know what zoo this is, and i've already called the RSPCA about them, who got the local authorities involved.

this 'well respected zoo' has been bycotted by me and anyone who'll listen to what i'll say about them for some time now

I went through a really hard time trying to get their ignorant sasjkghjkgh to listen to me, and obviously from your post nothing has been done, so I wouldn't be suprised if they didn't listen to you either.

Yesterday we went to visit the old girl at Whipsnade Zoo.
The lighting was reasonably dim, and there was only a tiny bit of water movement. The tank was not pristine and there was some algae growth on some of the back ground rock feature. She did choose to hide away from site in site her tunnel, but what I did see, she didn't look to bad.
Not sure just how much has changed, but I did leave wishing that they could maybe do a little more for her.

bellabelloo said:

Yesterday we went to visit the old girl at Whipsnade Zoo.
The lighting was reasonably dim, and there was only a tiny bit of water movement. The tank was not pristine and there was some algae growth on some of the back ground rock feature. She did choose to hide away from site in site her tunnel, but what I did see, she didn't look to bad.
Not sure just how much has changed, but I did leave wishing that they could maybe do a little more for her.

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Thanks for that Julia, poor thing On the + side at least they listened!! Dimmed lighting is great as is the water movement and judging from the tank they have done a lot as the algae and manky plants that were in there last time were truly shocking!! Shame though she still has that green growth on her head Glad the keeper sorted most of the things and she also has a hiding spot now, also good!

Small steps to educate the world on axies lol!! xx