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Unhealthy animals!!!

frogman

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My kweichows have arrived with poor results. The male is disfigured and the female is resisting food. I would like them to live but I dont see it happening.:( . They are farm raised. I would have liked to breed them but with my only male gone and a female gone it would leave me withe two females. All exited for nothing i guess. What a waste of money. The others are fine.
 

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Azhael

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Money? What a waste of animals!
I´m sorry to sound harsh, but this is what happens when you rush into getting animals which you are not ready to keep. This is also a common consequence of purchasing WC animals which are significantly more likely to develop problems like sores, refusing to eat, etc.
The tank wasn´t cycled which means that the water conditions are not going to be stable or safe, and that causes stress. Since the animals were already stressed to begin with, you really needed to offer optimal conditions for them to be able to recover and adapt. You neglected to do that, and these are the consequences...

What temperature are they kept at? what foods have you tried?
I´d advice you to move the animals to a secure container with moist paper towels as substrate and decent ventilation. You´ll need to offer some bark or something for them to hide. Avoid stress, don´t disturb and keep them in a shady area. That may allow them to relax and accept food which would be the first step in their recovery.
 
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warrior

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These are the replies you guys give?Why not just tell him to kill them! I do agree you seperate each one that's sick into a seperate container.Make sure the water is clean and atleast 24 hours cycled.Try feeding live blackworms or frozen bloodworms.Is there any way you can get your money back or get replacements?Sometimes giving advice and helping someone new in the hobby is a good thing,not a smirky reply like i'm not surprised.I however am surprised at some people that are made moderators here,JMO.
 

eljorgo

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Im not surprised either. What a waste of animals no doubt. One should know that WC crocodile newts are items that should go to very, but really very experienced hands. If crocodile newts are already moderate to hard to keep once healthy, on poor conditions they are a real super challenge. You should have tough about it sooner. Specially if these would come from a whole seller or shop and not from another hobbyist. Ive got a pair of those from another hobbyist and they came in really excellent conditions. I always analyse the provenance so these situations really rarely happen to me.
Still I can tell if those are the living ones, I fear they go along with the others.
Other tip. when getting WC Tylototriton the only way to work for their lives is too keep them around 18-20ºC in full darkness and in a 100% terrestrial setup with rather low humidity. Try to feed from 3 in 3 days in shady environment. 2-3months later when in better conditions and good 'bely size' then think about a larger and different type of setup. Once again, think FIRST about their health. Not about breeding, like you can see for yourself, your irresponsibility and ignorance of our comments on your other thread lead to this ending. Thus I never heard someone having success breeding animals in critical low weight, filled with parasites and emaciated.
Hope at last, you understand our concerns.
Cheers,
 

frogman

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I keep them at roughly in the 60s and low 70s. I have tried worms and crickets and pellets. The male is eating and the female is not. The other two are fine. So should i keep them in a storage container in my closet? I agree that i rushed. If I could i would go back in time and not have gotten them. They would be better off in someone else's hands. I would sell them but it would be cruel to put them through another shipment.
 

Azhael

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These are the replies you guys give?


After a series of nice, helpful answers in another thread which didn´t have the desired effect? Yes.
Feel free to disagree, but don´t pretend like we are incredibly mean people that cruelly attack others for no good reason. This really was a situation that was almost bound to happen. And certainly not the kind of course of action that should be praised.
I expect, by 24 hours cycled water, you meant aged or dechlorinated water, which is indeed a precaution that should be taken. There´s no such thing as cycling water in 24 hours, though.
Bloodworms will almost certainly not work, and blackworms are unlikely to work too in a terrestrial environment (they´ll disperse and hide).
The ideal foods for this kind of situation are earthworms and waxworms. Give them a try, they are your best option.
Frogman, i hope you realize we don´t mean to be rude, but rushing into getting lots of different animals without having researched them and without having made sure to have everything ready is an irresponsible thing to do (much more so if they are delicate like these, or the caecilians you were asking for somewhere else). I hope you´ll learn a lesson. It´s the poor animals that pay the biggest price. We all make mistakes, but what´s important is to learn from them and not trip over the same rock over and over. What´s done is done. Good luck.
 
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frogman

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I meant i was feeding them night crawlers. Or cut in half crawlers. I will move them into a cool container withe paper towels and hiding. I keep them aquatic.
 

FrogEyes

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A percentage of these animals come in with open sores, but those will heal gradually if the animals are kept at moderate temperatures in fairly dry surroundings - ie, the leaf litter outdoors that I've mentioned before. Of course, outdoors here is a tad cooler than you likely have access to, as we probably have fewer than 20 days per year of 25C or warmer, Night temperatures I've kept them at probably ranged from 0C to 15C, but for the warmer periods 10C was probably ballpark at night and 20-22 average daytime. I've had good success with these, probably from the vaery same supply chain. They're not "farmed", not at the massive adult sizes they arrive at.
 

frogman

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They arrived the way they are. I am now keeping them in a 10 gallon tank. It is dark moist and has lots of hiding. It is very cool also.
 

Bellabelloo

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I would give them a chance to settle, quietly for a while. Many new animals will be reluctant to feed for a while, consider the journey they have been on to reach you. I would just add live food into their container and leave them be, check quietly later and see if the food has gone.
When you say the male is disfigured, what do you mean? I am not familiar with the species, but looking at the photo's they look stunning to me :D. If its the shorter toes on one foot that you are worried about, this may just be a recovering injury.
 

damien

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T. kweichowensis is not a species that you can keep fully aquatic. They almost only enter the water to breed and then go back on land.
My animals love to hide in bark tunnels and those reptile hides.
It's possible that being in the water (not fully aged/cycled?) is an extra dose of stress for them.
As Julia said, stress can be the cause of not eating.

Personally I would put them in a tank with only 1/3 water and 2/3 land and provide good hides on the
land part.
 

frogman

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I am now keeping them in a 10 gallon tank with crickets, moss, wet paper towels, bark, and wood. Someone said to keep them in that for them to calm down. How long should I keep them like that for? They are not true kweichows. They are a T.shanjing and T.kweichowensis mix. When in a tank with 1/4 water 3/4 land they spend their time in shallow water or under water. When i kept them terrestrial they spent all their time in the water dish. What to do!!!
 

SpaceCadetHayde

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Whatever you do, make sure your water is thoroughly cycled. Get a water test kit and make sure everything is OK before putting your newts in the tank. Keep them quarantined for 30-90 days or until they're showing no signs of illness and eating well. The water in your tank is awfully deep. In the time they're in quarantine, READ UP on how to care for them and house them. In your other thread, there are some pictures of beautiful tanks. Allow your water to cycle completely before putting them in there.

I suggest you read the Water Quality FAQ and read through all of the Kweichow theads.
 

ummi

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AW: Re: Unhealthy animals!!!

Hello frogmen,
you've got a lot of good advice, very needful. See on the slender tail of your Kweichowensis, it's a sign that they are not in the water. Just now I made pictures of my Kweichowensis. The tail is broad, they are often in the water ( I also have the "buttoned" Kweichowensis-it's the same with them ). Upon one picture you see a little larvae, they are together with the adults,
ummi
 

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frogman

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I don't have true kweichows they are a kweichow+shanjing mix. Do you have pics of their terrestrial habitat?
 

damien

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I've never heard of a hybrid of T. shanjing and T. kweichowensis. I can't rule it out, but I think it's unlikely.
There have been imports, however with animals that have a bit of both species. There is no evidence whatsoever that it's a hybrid. These animals suddenly popped up about a year ago.
These 'new' Tylo's are bigger than regular kweichowensis and the back pattern reminds more of T. shanjing.
I think it's either a local population with a different color pattern or a new (sub) species. I don't have exact locality data, so It's hard to say.
 

freves

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I do not have much to add that has not already been mentioned. I agree that quarantine is a must. If an animal is not feeding readily then offer only a small section of earthworm (not half a worm). As hides in my quarantine enclosures I use inverted terra cotta saucers with a hole on one side. Place the reluctant feeder in the hide alone with a small section of earthworm at night and then turn off the lights. Do not disturb it until the next morning. This trick has often worked for me. As far as breeding is concerned, you have to remember that this species has only been CB in the US a few times. It is highly unlikely that you as a beginner will have any success. In addition for breeding attempts it is best to purchase animals in groups -please note that I am not advocating for you to order more kweichows. It will be best for you to learn how to take care of what you have first. Also as others have mentioned you should stop calling them a "kweichow/shanjing mix" as there is no such thing. Until the taxonomy is better worked out this will only perpetuate myths for anyone using a search function to learn about this species. You seem to have a good deal of enthusiasm for keeping caudates and that is good. Just remember to slow down, research, and try to avoid impulse purchases. I wish you luck with your new animals.
Chip
 
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