Question: What do you make of this?

Gem died. She had white spots on her gills, just like Anda did when she died. Now Copper has a spot, but its only a spot and her gills haven't shrunken as much as the other two. I have taken some pics as best I could, she's been in a container with fresh water changed everyday and dechlorinated.

Please let me know, I tried to ask the same quesiton about Anda and I had pics and nobody answered so she died because I didn't know what to do. Copper isn't eating either and I've tried both frozen blood worms and axi pellets. I don't want to lose Copper too! PLEASE HELP!

This axolotl is very thin. Sorry for the questions, but the more we know the more we may be able to help.
What and how often do you feed it?
What do you have in its tank?
What temperature is the tank?
What are the readings for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate?
What size or age is it?

I knew I should've put 'p.s I already know my axi is very thin' on the end of my first post!
Somehow I knew someone would ask questions to which I thought I had already provided answers to, but I'll answer them anyway.

What and how often do you feed it?
I've tried both frozen blood worms and axi pellets 2-3 times a day/night, but she's ignoring food.

What do you have in its tank?
She's in a container, not a tank, with nothing but fresh water, which is changed everyday and dechlorinated, hence there is no Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate, but I have tested it just for reassurance. There is a lid 3/4 over the top of the container with a tea towel 3/4 over it to keep out light.

What temperature is the tank?
It's currently at 16c

What are the readings for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate?
0, 0 and 0.

What size or age is it?
She is almost 6 inches (15cm) long but I don't know how old as I've only had her for a few months.

I know you're just trying to help, but do you have any more questions?

This is the first post that I have seen regarding Anda, hence the questions. I think they where reasonable to ask considering you are asking for help with your axolotl.

besides the container you have her in now - - what WAS the tank they were originally in? Trying to find the source can tell us how to treat

Below is the thread regarding Anda, which I noticed you commented on by the way, but I'm not here to start a war.

http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...sick-axolotl/79114-fungus-something-more.html

The tank was dirty, but I'm not sure if that was the source. The good news is, some of the white stuff has just come off Copper's gill, so there's hope yet. She's been in the container for about 4 days or so now, but I've changed the water everyday.

Ok, forget everything that I've said. I've just been told that axi's can get parasites from feeder fish and unfortunately, I rung the pet store and they confirmed for me that that's what they feed their axi's. Copper is going to die and there is nothing I can do about it. I hate myself for Gem and Anda dieing needlessly and for my naivety in all this.

Thank you to everyone who took the time to try and help me with my axi's over the past year. I will be getting another axolotl from a breeder but first I will need to setup the tank again.

If you mean internal parasites, why not trying to treat them?
It worked out for my almost dead axie as well.

gemsowner said:

Below is the thread regarding Anda, which I noticed you commented on by the way, but I'm not here to start a war.

Click to expand...

I'm not trying to start a war either, but most people don't remember every thread they've posted in. In that thread's case I think most people would do everything in their power to forget they read it.

gemsowner said:

Ok, forget everything that I've said. I've just been told that axi's can get parasites from feeder fish and unfortunately, I rung the pet store and they confirmed for me that that's what they feed their axi's. Copper is going to die and there is nothing I can do about it. I hate myself for Gem and Anda dieing needlessly and for my naivety in all this.

Thank you to everyone who took the time to try and help me with my axi's over the past year. I will be getting another axolotl from a breeder but first I will need to setup the tank again.

Click to expand...

Morrison said:

If you mean internal parasites, why not trying to treat them?

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I agree with Morrison, there is something you can do about it, just treat the animal for parasites. Some fish medications work well, though the dosage may need to be tweeked a bit to treat an axolotl. Others here have more experience on the subject than I do. I've never dealt with axolotl parasites.

I think what beck meant was there's not much hope for copper as she is almost of deaths door step at the moment, she is most likely going to die and there's not much she can do about it. I have been speaking to beck for the last few days about gem who just passed away and coppers condition is not much better.

@Morrison
What did you do to treat your axie?
Please write up all the info needed in order to help copper.
What medicine did you use? How much? How did you give it to your axie etc. And how often?

To anyone else that may know someone on parasites, please provide any information on how to treat them asap as I don't think copper will last more than a few more days if that.

I don't know anything about parasites and axolotls, all I know is copper has been starving to death for weeks, refusing food and beck couldn't figure out why. I suggested it might be a parasite from possible feeder fish, beck phoned the pet shop where they were brought and has confirmed that they were on feeder fish at the store. I'm sure on exactly how long ago that was, but to my knowledge parasites can take quiet some time to kill any type of animal host they are living in.
I suggested euthanasia as I think it would prob be the best way to go with such a sick axie, but if there are treatments that work like morrison suggested then i defiantly suggest that, as soon as some detail are posted on what that involves I'll do my best to help beck with copper as I only live an hour away and I was going to foster gem for a bit to try to help beck with her, but those plans were before she sadly past.
If anyone has any help or suggestions on a parasite treatment please post up as much information as you can, thanks!

The medicine I used contained metronidazole ('Flagyl'), to treat flagellates and other ciliates.
It was a two day treatment. 1 ml metronidazole/5 liters water (and I used slightly less. If you have... let's say 60 L then the medicine says you have to use 12 ml, but I used sbout 10 ml, just to play it safe.
Before you put it in do a 25% water change.
Then you put the medicine in the water and if you have an airstone in the tank it's better to turn it on for some extra oxygen in the water.
Remember to get the carbon out of your filter (if you have it), because it filters out the medicine in the water.

After two days you do another 25% water change and put the carbon back in (it's better to use fresh carbon) the filter so that it can filter out the medicine in the water.

For my axie after those two days everything came back to normal. He started to eat and poop normally and became more active and started to get his belly (and gills, because they were small) back.

If there's still no sign of improvement you can do another treatment (at least) 14 days after the last day of the first treatment.

Hope this helps!

Copper is in a tub, so would beck be able to change the water of the tub and just put more in of the same amount on the second day?

Hm, I can't really tell if it's 100% okay for axies to put more in it than necessary, but as far as I know metronidazole is on the 'safe list' for axies and I think a 2 day treatment won't harm an axie that much.

So instead of using slightly less you can use exactly 1ml/5l water.

Edit, just found something:

Flagyl, also known as metronidazole - Used at a lower dosage than for reptiles, it appears to be safe for use as an anti-parasitic treatment in food (inject it into a waxworm or other convenient food). It also stimulates appetite.

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The medicine I have is to put in the water (it's for 'fish' and aquatic amphibians). I also have it for reptiles (for my corn snake). I don't know what kind of medicine with metronidazole in it can be found in your country, but I think injecting it into a worm or so won't really work because the axie won't eat. So I would go for the liquid one.

I wish you and the axie good luck

Flagyl/metronidazole isn't a direct appetite stimulent. The reason it may function to stimulate the appetite is because it kills of various protozoal that live in the digestive tract. If this was the cause of the problem then the animal begins to feed again. If this is not the cause of the loss of appetite the animal does not begin to feed again and if not resolved can die.

There are many potential causes of appetite loss (not necessarily a complete list), some can be parasitical in nature, vitamin and/or mineral deficiency, viral, bacterial, stress, or and/or mechanical. Simply because an axolotl was fed feeder fish doesn't automatically mean that it is going to have a parasite infection and shouldn't be used as an immediate alarm. As an example if a major portion of the diet consisted of prekilled warm water fish and some types of shrimp then the appetite loss may be due to insufficient thiamine. This is known to cause loss of feeding in affected animals.

Some thoughts,

Ed

It's more then just loss of appetite though and that's why I'm almost certain that it's a parasite. The worst thing of all and why I don't hold much hope for Copper, is that I'm broke until next week, so even if there are possible medicines, I can't afford them. Thanks for everyone's help.

Im dead broke until next thursday too, otherwise id buy them for you in a heart beat. Im not sure but maybe a pet tore would let u pay on off, if u go in with a photo of copper, and a list of what she needs maybe someone there would let you come back next week to pay it off?.. its worth a try. Id try a few shop im sure you could fins someone with a soul!

In all honesty, I would just go ahead and euthanise it. It will be dead within a week anyways.

Well for the moment, she's very much still alive, just skinny. I will see what I can do today(friday) about the medicine. Thanks for all the support, information and ideas.

gemsowner said:

It's more then just loss of appetite though and that's why I'm almost certain that it's a parasite. The worst thing of all and why I don't hold much hope for Copper, is that I'm broke until next week, so even if there are possible medicines, I can't afford them. Thanks for everyone's help.

Click to expand...

There are a lot of different things that are much more likely to cause loss of appetite than parasites. People often point at parasites because parasites are widespread even in captive bred animals. If you euthanize even healthy looking animals, there is a very good chance that you will find one or more parasites in them. Parasites are then often used as an reason for an animal doing poorly even parasites aren't the cause. It is more often coincidence that causality....

There is a whole lot of voodoo husbandry about feeder fish and the risks of parasites from them for many animals in question and very little that actually documents the real risks. For example depending on the type of feeder fish in question, they can actually be a very good source of nutrition for amphibians. If you have access see for example JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie..... (the link still works).

Ed

Don't get me wrong, I'm open to other ideas, it's just that parasites is the only idea that anyone's given me that has made some sense. If anyone has any other idea's as to what Gem and Anda died from or what could be possibly wrong with Copper, by all means, suggest away.