Two dead in two days

Hey guys,

Some unfortunate news, my female melanoid passed away 2 days ago. She was floating and refusing food for a little while (3 days prior), which was somewhat disturbing, however appeared healthy otherwise. Body looked normal, gills were starting to grow larger since I got her from the pet store and the abdomen was not distended.

As soon as I was greeted by that sight, I pulled the body out of the tank and did a 30% water change/tested the water and it was a-ok.

The female did swim up dolphin-style for a few seconds at odd intervals before she started floating (floating at the top - if I gently pushed her down with a finger, she'd float back up with a curved back). The male came up for gulps of air maybe, once an hour, however didn't display the same behavior as the female. Assumed this was gut related (bacteria in the gut can make them gassy I suppose) however unfortunately I still don't know what happened.

This morning I noticed the male had also passed away at the bottom of the tank (pale gills, not moving/responding at all) - he had a very good appetite and was quite active last night.

Are there any infectious diseases that can affect them (i.e parasites, etc) that can cause this behaviour? They were quite young, probably 6 inches long (bought from a pet store around a month back).

Regarding diet, they were fed crickets and the odd mealworm.

Some pointers:

- I do not use any gravel (mix of very large rocks and silica sand)
- I dechlorinate water
- I have 2 ammonia filters in there - nitrate/nitrite is also very low
- The temperature was 22-19 for the majority of the time (I leave the aircon on during the day just for them!)
- Have been doing water changes every few days to bring the ammonia down, which at the last reading was under 1 ppm and readings for ph/nitrate/nitrate every week, sometimes twice a week
- Have live plants in the tank which all appear ok
- My dechlorinator is the API stress coat - could this be an issue?
- Neither has been fridged at any point

The only unusual thing is that my water seems somewhat alkaline, though that shouldn't make too much of a difference to axolotls from what I have been told.

Has anybody got any ideas as to what may have caused this double death? I am considering cleaning the tank out/cycling it for a few weeks and starting again, though I would hate for any new inhabitants to take the same fate!

How large is the tank? Were they on gravel at the pet store? Were they the only 2 Axolotls in the tank?

I have heard of cricket chitin causing blockages, and the arched floating style points to that being an issue as well.

It is only 35L, however plans were to purchase something larger in a month as the budget allows (60L)

Being only little things though, I am not sure that they excreted too much ammonia, as the water was measured very frequently. There were 2 of them, yes. There was another one in the tank with them in the pet store, though I see now they have a new batch in there, so I am not sure what happened with him.

There was some ochre coloured gravel at the pet shop when I got them - I have seen them pass it and have been removing it from the bottom of the tank as it is very easy to spot against the black rocks. Hasn't been in a large quantity though. Perhaps that was the problem. The chitin theory seems to have some backing also, as the shells I imagine, would have to pass through undigested. Just checked the tank and I can't see any solids from crickets or otherwise.

Keeping in mind, the horseshoe looking floating/not eating/lethargic behaviour was only from the female. The male was eating very well/being active the night before this morning.

I have the male's body in my freezer at the moment - trying to find a vet who would check if there's anything inside of him which shouldn't be there, or any other signs of illness (not sure how much can be seen if frozen though). Would anybody be able to recommend a herp vet in Sydney?

Hope it isn't too much of a lost cause yet!

Those are the last two pictures of the male I took the day before he died. Not sure if that's helpful at all!

I'm thinking these could be heat releated. It has been getting pretty hot recently and being young they might be more at risk. Have you been monitoring the temps in the tank and if so what has it been running at?


Regards Neil

Shizeric said:

How large is the tank? Were they on gravel at the pet store? Were they the only 2 Axolotls in the tank?

I have heard of cricket chitin causing blockages, and the arched floating style points to that being an issue as well.

Click to expand...

The idea of chitin blockages has been around for quite awhile now but rarely is it demonstrated to be the case... particulalry since some better data has come out indicating that the indigestiability of chitin was overestimated by several factors (and that axolotls do consume chitionous food items in the wild).
The pictures didn't come through, so I don't have an idea on the actual size of the axolotls. If we are to consider crickets as a potential cause, I think we need to look at the species of cricket, sex, and size. There are actually documentations in the literature of gastric overloads with crickets where the ovipositors of the females were forced through the body walls resulting in infections and death. The animals consumed so many crickets rapidly which was the causitive agent.

This isn't a free article but it is a good indication that some of the ideas on chitin and feeder insects may need to be reevaluated by the hobby The effects of prey species on food conversion efficiency and growth of an insectivorous lizard - Rich - 2008 - Zoo Biology - Wiley Online Library

To the OP, it should be noted that freezing the body of the axolotl, will prevent the vet from being able to look for signs of a viral and possible bacterial infections as it damages the tissues signficantly. If you call a local vet and ask them if they know anyone who does necropsies on axolotls, they should be able to give you a reference.

Ed

Maybe the filesize is too high for the thumbnails to be generated in time - here's links to the shots:

http://anthelionimaging/_MG_5182.jpg
http://anthelionimaging/_MG_5170.jpg

Keeping in mind though, they are quite soft in focus and taken without a flash, so it's hard to see the skin textures properly and in the colour shot, both of his his arms/hands are there; as he was moving quickly, it's blurred out.

A necropsy would indicate if a mechanical blockage is to blame. Unfortunately freezing was the only option - refrigeration might still lead to decomposition and I can't imagine the smell as pleasant either.

The crickets were labelled as "small" and I removed their heads prior to feeding, however the chitin might still be an issue, as well as any gravel from the pet store which may have not been passed (though this is highly unlikely as it was very small).

Will ring around and report back if I find anybody who is willing to take on that task!

As I mentioned previously, airconditioning has been running for the 5 hottest hours of each day and water has been on average, 22 degrees, if the thermometer in there is to be trusted.

Instead of freezing, you can always open the body cavity and place in alcohol to preserve it and then place in the refrigerator. That prevents decomposition as well as the damage from the freezing. The vet wouldn't be able to do bacterial cultures but it is about the best of two worlds.

Ed