Very pale gills!

munchbunch · Feb 8, 2012

I came home today to one of my leucistic juvies called Ned looking very pale. His gills are nearly completely white, he is very lethargic but is moving around slightly and he ate two pellets but spat one out straight after eating it. I did a water change which I was intending to do today anyway but his condition hasn't seemed to change. He was acting completely fine yesterday and eating normally. Gillroy, his tank mate, is completely fine - swimming, eating and beautiful bright gills.

I can't check the parameters as I wont have a kit until this weekend but can anyone tell me what might be wrong?

Will upload a picture at some point.

zoezakella · Feb 8, 2012

munchbunch said:
I came home today to one of my leucistic juvies called Ned looking very pale. His gills are nearly completely white, he is very lethargic but is moving around slightly and he ate two pellets but spat one out straight after eating it. I did a water change which I was intending to do today anyway but his condition hasn't seemed to change. He was acting completely fine yesterday and eating normally. Gillroy, his tank mate, is completely fine - swimming, eating and beautiful bright gills.

I can't check the parameters as I wont have a kit until this weekend but can anyone tell me what might be wrong?

Will upload a picture at some point.

Axies gills do go pale when they are resting or not being active, you will see the blood rush through them when they are hunting arond for food / swimming etc so dont panic :happy:

As for water parameteres yes those do need to be checked to rule out water quality issues.

Are you feeding your juvie anything else other than pellets?? An axies staple diet should be lovely, juicy (so my axies have told me) earthworms!!! No matter what size axie you have there is always a worm in your garden that is the ideal size (presuming no chemicals are used in your garden). See if you can tempt your axie with one of these, bet it wont be there for long!

How big is your axie and if its just today he is off colour I would not worry too much at the moment just keep an eye on him and get the water checked asap just incase!

albert · Feb 8, 2012

Katie,

There is quite a bit more information you could supply to help identify if there is a problem - size/age of axies; information about the set up; what you feed and regularity of feeds; etc.

Anyway - doing a water test can't be a bad thing and will help to identify if there are problems with water quality. I would also say, in my experience, leucistic axies gills can change significantly in colour - and before feeding they can look quite drained but following feeding flush with colour; so although what you describe sounds a bit on the extreme side it isn't something I'd be overly concerned about - at least in the short term.

Zoe beat me to it - but two suggestions to not worry too much for the moment is hopefully sufficiently reassuring.

munchbunch · Feb 8, 2012

Thank you for your replies!

In response to Zoe, I also feed my axies blood worms and I have some in the fridge but they aren't very fresh; I will also be buying some more this weekend. I will definitely be keeping an eye on him as you suggested. Due to it being winter at the moment and has just snowed there aren't many earthworms in the garden but once the weather picks up and we have a rainy day I will be out searching!

In response to Albert, I'm not 100% of their age but I've had them since July (both from the same batch) and when I got them they were about 2 inches and had their legs. They are now roughly 6 inches and are only in a temporary set up as will be moving into a 2.5ft tank in the next two weeks. Ned is slightly smaller than Gillroy and has always had shorter gills, but they are full of filaments and healthy looking. I do a 20% water change weekly. I feed them daily in small portions alternating between pellets and blood worms. Sorry for the big list there!

zoezakella · Feb 8, 2012

Lol know it well digging soil at the moment is awful. If they are 6 inches they do not need feeding daily more like twice/three times a week but good rule is check their width is not wider than their heads if it is they are eating too much. Might be why he spat second pellet or or just having an off day

zoezakella · Feb 8, 2012

Oh and are those live blood worms then your using?

munchbunch · Feb 8, 2012

Yeah they are live, I get them from my local garden centre and haven't had any problems with them (touch wood!). I know you can sometimes get parasites and fungal infections with them but I make sure I get the ones sourced from safe cultures

munchbunch · Feb 10, 2012

munchbunch-albums-my-new-axolotls-picture20825-img-3510.jpg

munchbunch-albums-my-new-axolotls-picture20826-img-3511.jpg

munchbunch-albums-my-new-axolotls-picture20827-untitled.jpg

1st picture = Gillroy, 2nd picture = Ned, 3rd picture = Ned
Ned is still very pale looking and is flicking his gills a lot. I also noticed that he has a small lump/bump type thing on his head

munchbunch · Feb 20, 2012

Sorry to bump this but since I made this thread Ned has not eaten at all. He to sniff the food but doesn't snap at it.

I've noticed that his head is a bit more red than usual (as if he had something in his mouth) and haven't seen him snap so I'm wondering if he is having difficulty opening his mouth? I really don't know what to do. I separated them to see if Ned is eating and pooping and he is pooping but not eating. I have also tried giving them different foods such as pellets, frozen blood worm cubes and will be getting some live worms asap as well. Can anyone tell me what else I can do and what might be the problem?

He is no longer pale and is back to his normal colour but now he just skinny and weak.

zoezakella · Feb 20, 2012

munchbunch said:
Sorry to bump this but since I made this thread Ned has not eaten at all. He to sniff the food but doesn't snap at it.

I've noticed that his head is a bit more red than usual (as if he had something in his mouth) and haven't seen him snap so I'm wondering if he is having difficulty opening his mouth? I really don't know what to do. I separated them to see if Ned is eating and pooping and he is pooping but not eating. I have also tried giving them different foods such as pellets, frozen blood worm cubes and will be getting some live worms asap as well. Can anyone tell me what else I can do and what might be the problem?

He is no longer pale and is back to his normal colour but now he just skinny and weak.

Hi katie,

The lump I am afraid I have no idea, has it got any bigger, presume it is a new thing??? Did you manage to get your water tested? What happens to the uneaten pellets as once broken down they will foul the water quickly, also I really would avoid using live bloodworm, for a start they are not as nutricious or beneficial to an axie as an earthworm is and secondly they would have to hunt down a very large amount to even get the amount they need to feel full! Do you have a garden (that you dont use pesticides etc in) & if so please dig up some earthworms asap and try one on your axie asap. Do you have an up to date picture of him to assess the redness and skinnyness?? When was the last time he ate?

munchbunch · Feb 20, 2012

Thank you for your quick response, I really appreciate your help!! They had no testing kits in stock this weekend so I'm checking again on Wednesday and will post the results straight away :happy:. Earthworms will be my next option and once Ned has started eating again I will make it their staple diet, I just want to try live bloodworms first as I know he has enjoyed them in the past and if it is a problem with opening his mouth it'd be easier to eat them rather than a big ol' earth worm.

The bump on his head is still there but I wouldn't say it's gotten bigger. He isn't drastically underweight to the point of describing him as emaciated but he definitely has lost weight. I have a 2 and a half foot tank which I will be setting up this week once I have a polystyrene base and so they will be moving into a new home soon, do you think will this cause too much extra stress on him?

munchbunch-albums-my-new-axolotls-picture21050-skinny-baby.jpg

munchbunch-albums-my-new-axolotls-picture21051-img-3723.jpg

zoezakella · Feb 20, 2012

munchbunch said:
Thank you for your quick response, I really appreciate your help!! They had no testing kits in stock this weekend so I'm checking again on Wednesday and will post the results straight away :happy:. Earthworms will be my next option and once Ned has started eating again I will make it their staple diet, I just want to try live bloodworms first as I know he has enjoyed them in the past and if it is a problem with opening his mouth it'd be easier to eat them rather than a big ol' earth worm.

The bump on his head is still there but I wouldn't say it's gotten bigger. He isn't drastically underweight to the point of describing him as emaciated but he definitely has lost weight. I have a 2 and a half foot tank which I will be setting up this week once I have a polystyrene base and so they will be moving into a new home soon, do you think will this cause too much extra stress on him?

No worries these axies like to keep us on our toes

I do worry it could be a water problem especially with all those broken pellets around the floor in the piccies so try and get a kit on wednesday would be good to know ammonia levels etc are good!

what size tank are they in at the moment, if its smaller this could also be adding to the bad water quality?? do you use a filter at all??

As for the live bloodworm to be honest he is underweight and if he is unwell I am sure the last thing he has the energy for is to be hunting down bloodworm which swim all over the place. I would try getting some waxworms which will help fatten him up and again please try digging up some earthworms, if you hand feed them to him its minimum effort for him (not sure if you have any tweezers) and hopefully he will gobble it down

You could always try a small worm to start with and see how it goes.

lollypop · Feb 20, 2012

Just find your local bait shop/fishing shop and get som worms from them, dendros are reasonably small and if you want you can just put them in a tub and compost some of your veg pealings with them. Or the tub will keep in the fridge (pref door) for months

munchbunch · Feb 22, 2012

I got my kit and here are the results (remembering that I am new to this so sorry if I confuse you at all

)

Ammonia - 0 (woohoo!)
Nitrate - 500 mg/l
Nitrite - 0.5 mg/l
General Hardness - 500 mg/l
Carbonate Hardness - 270 mg/l
pH - 7.2

I'm noticing that Nitrates are quite high, is this a problem? They are temporarily in a small tank but they do have a filter. As said before, they should hopefully be in a 2.5 ft tank by the end of the week. I really do appreciate your responses, thankyou

Kaysie · Feb 22, 2012

Nitrates should be below 80! The only way to remove nitrates is with live plants or water changes.

munchbunch · Feb 22, 2012

Uh-oh.. how much water should I change at once? Also, so I know for future reference, how can I avoid high levels?

Do you think this is what is causing Ned to stop eating possibly

He's worrying me now because he seems very weak and struggling to get around the tank, I just don't understand because Gillroy has a great appetite and is acting completely normal..

zoezakella · Feb 23, 2012

munchbunch said:
Uh-oh.. how much water should I change at once? Also, so I know for future reference, how can I avoid high levels?

Do you think this is what is causing Ned to stop eating possibly

He's worrying me now because he seems very weak and struggling to get around the tank, I just don't understand because Gillroy has a great appetite and is acting completely normal..

If I was you I would do a 50% water change and also if Gillroy is getting worse it might be worth fridging him to reduce his stress levels BUT my only worry with doing that is the cold slows down their metabolism and dont want that with him not eating!

have you tried an earthworm / or waxworm on him yet??

Kaysie · Feb 23, 2012

You can do 20-30% a day. Test your tap water for nitrates (it's pretty common). That will give you a baseline reading of what your nitrate should be, plus whatever is added by the aquarium. Water changes and live plants are the only way to remove nitrates from a tank.

And definitely try earthworms or waxworms, or even a pinkie mouse (if you're not squeamish about that sort of thing). Live food may help stimulate him into eating.

munchbunch · Feb 23, 2012

I'll get right on the water change! I haven't managed to find an earthworm yet but I'm quite apprehensive about using one from the garden - we've only just moved here and the man who lived here before loved gardening so I don't know if he used pesticides or not. Do local garden centres sell worms?

munchbunch · Feb 23, 2012

In the last couple hours the lump on Ned's head has become HUGE... he also has a white lump above his eye

Gillroy keeps sitting with him and I'm hoping this isn't animal instinct..

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Very pale gills!

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