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For the experts - Andersoni or Mexicanum

LeFarge

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I bought these 4 caudates at a high price in good faith from a VERY reputable UK dealer -

http://www.caudata.org/forum/members/lefarge-albums-ambystoma-andersoni-anderson-s-salamanders.html

They are German CB, apparently. As you can see the pics chart their growth from juvies to subadults.

None of the 4 have any hint of the typical Andersoni colouration and several users have emailed me on here saying they think I have been mis-sold Mexicanum wildtypes.

I waited and waited for the patterning to show through but 6 months on - zip. I have asked the guy I bought them from and he says he saw their parents which were definitely Andersoni.

I have seen on Google a vague picture of a dark Andersoni, but not sure how accurate that is.

The behaviour of these Caudates was initially different to my Mexicanum - they were more aggressive feeders and spent a lot of time sat on back legs and tail looking up... though this has stopped some months ago... they all came to me a bit skinny (one VERY skinny) so maybe they were just hungry!

I am at the point now where I have to admit I don't know what they are - the headshape is different to any of my 4 Mexicanum but it doesn't look like any Andersoni picture I've seen either!

Most frustrating of all, the dealer in question now has a number of traditionally marked A Andersoni in stock, considerably cheaper than those I bought, but has blanked my suggestion he swap two of them for the last two I bought from him (both of which had defects that were not mentioned - specifically one only has feathers on 2 gills and 1 has a 'lobster claw' on his front paw)...

Any thoughts from those genuinely familiar with Andersoni would be appreciated... I am frustrated at not knowing what they are.
 

Azhael

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This is just my opinion, but i´d say those look an awful lot like A.mexicanum. The pattern is aaaall wrong and there´s something off about the head.
If the dealer is the one i´m thinking, reputable is not an adjective i´d used, let alone preceded by a "very"...
 

Dr0gr1n

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I have 7 juvies that look just like these guys, sadly they had A. mexicanum parents. I would not call this dealer reputable. I wonder how many others were sold with the same description for a mark up since Andersoni are harder to get.
 

xxianxx

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I agree that they look like A.mexicanum, they were apparently from the same batch of A.andersoni that mine were from, i bought mine from the same dealer as Lefarge, whilst mine are definitely A.andersoni these are not. I would consider taking legal action against the dealer if apropriate recompense was not made. Also cut to the chase, the dealer is dart frog.
 

LeFarge

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thanks for comments so far... be interesting to get feedback from michael shrom or any of our german friends...
 

michael

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At first glance they look like A. mexicanum. Their is a lot of variation in A. andersoni. I'd hesitate to make a call either way. I'd try to dialogue more with the dealer about your concerns.
 

esn

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I have my own andersoni, and they have never looked anything like those pictures. I do, however, have three young wildtypes that do look like that. I would say that they are light wild types, but who knows if they're actually a cross breed - the supplier could be duping with a mexicanum andersoni cross, considering the color on one of the photos. It's a tough call. If Michael can't tell, who knows!
 

scooty16

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Goodness! Where can you get these beautiful types from? They are gorgeous, I am very jealous! :D
 

esn

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I'm jealous that you're able to get your hands on some in the UK. I have a pair and I'm looking for more, but they aren't available here at all. I got mine from dumb luck finding them in a store. I still haven't figured out the breeder their supplier got them from.
 
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