What species of salamander larvae are these? And, how do I keep them when they "grow up"?

Bill B · Jul 5, 2012

Any ideas what species of salamander these are? Montague, Michigan, USA. It was near heavily wooded old forest on a dune, but the wetland from which they were taken, and mostly cattail-dominated marsh, was probably not part of the dune system since water runs down a tiny sluice out it into another (now dry) wetland, but still retains water.

Jennewt · Jul 6, 2012

I have no idea what species they are, larvae are difficult to ID. If the pellets are there as food, that is very unlikely to work.
Caudata Culture Articles - Microfoods

Bill B · Jul 17, 2012

I know the pellets were not good - I quickly got some black worms (and many other foods I probably didn't need to buy).

Bill B · Jul 17, 2012

same specimen, different life stage, now no gills.

Spotted Salamander (Ambystoma maculatum)? Even though there are no large spots on it, it does not seem have the skin color of a Blue-spotted.

Bill B · Jul 23, 2012

What species metamorph is this?

I've had suggestions for Ambystoma laterale, A. maculatum, and A. tigrinum. It's about 2 inches long. I've been told that that one can tell tigrinum from the gold in the eyes? Can all three be determined from the color of the iris?

Willlis · Jul 23, 2012

I'm thinking it is a blue spotted or hybrid. Time will tell. Good luck Bill!

Jan · Jul 24, 2012

What color is its underbelly? If yellowish, I would say you have a tiger.

It is an Ambystoma of some sort. As to your question as 'how to keep them when they grow up' - see this article: http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/tiger_sal_101.shtml

Bill B · Jul 24, 2012

Jan said:
What color is its underbelly? If yellowish, I would say you have a tiger.

It is an Ambystoma of some sort. As to your question as 'how to keep them when they grow up' - see this article: Caudata Culture Articles - Tiger Salamander 101

I don't know how to look at the belly. I attempted to handle another sal which I collected in the same area, while it was still a larva, and the tail ripped off even with gentle handling. It eventually died.

the page at address you gave me has more info for Ambystoma mavortium than A. tigrinum. How similar are they?

Jan · Jul 24, 2012

Tigers are a complex of species and subspecies and their care is identical. When it lifts its head, you can see the skin color of its throat.

Bill B · Jul 27, 2012

The photo on the care sheet showed no false floor that I can see. I have been told: 1) by herpetologists that salamanders don't like saturated conditions; 2) by a zoo keeper to use a false floor; and 3) I know that saturated coconut husk fiber can start to smell quite bad.

Should I use a false floor?

Jan · Jul 27, 2012

Saturated conditions are not acceptable - you want moist but not a wet substrate as stated in the article.

There is no need for a false floor.

I routinely use coco-fiber reconstituted blocks and have never had an issue with smell...but I do NOT keep it saturated and I do change it every 6 weeks or so. My tigers have all lived into the double digits...so there is a record of success with this method....as well as with the other care tips that I offer in the article.

Have a look also at another Caudata Culture article on tigers written by a zoo keeper: Caudata Culture Species Entry - Tiger salamander

Bill B · Jul 27, 2012

Is it okay to use a false floor? With a fiberglass window screen and egg-crating?

Jan · Jul 27, 2012

I wouldn't reccomend fiber-glass screen with egg-crating. Moist cardboard or foam egg-crating seems like a perfect place for pathogens and/or mold to breed.

Bill B · Jul 27, 2012

Egg-crating is this stuff.

Willlis · Aug 1, 2012

The false floor is going to help you from over saturating the substrate. It allows for drainage and isn't going to hurt the salamander. Just make sure you silicone the edges in so the salamander can't get beneath the false floor but if you aren't going to drill and install a drain beneath the false floor I wouldn't bother with it. I've never really had any issues with coco fiber smelling bad. As long as you have air flow it should be fine. If you remember my croc skink setup that is coco fiber and I haven't changed it in over a year now but I do remove waste when I see it and it doesn't smell bad at all. As far as belly color, i think it is possible that may change still as it has only just metamorphed but time will tell what species it is either way.

Bill B · Aug 1, 2012

Willlis said:
The false floor is going to help you from over saturating the substrate. It allows for drainage and isn't going to hurt the salamander. Just make sure you silicone the edges in so the salamander can't get beneath the false floor but if you aren't going to drill and install a drain beneath the false floor I wouldn't bother with it. I've never really had any issues with coco fiber smelling bad. As long as you have air flow it should be fine. If you remember my croc skink setup that is coco fiber and I haven't changed it in over a year now but I do remove waste when I see it and it doesn't smell bad at all. As far as belly color, i think it is possible that may change still as it has only just metamorphed but time will tell what species it is either way.

Thanks, Keith. :happy:

Coastal Groovin · Aug 2, 2012

You are making things way to hard on yourself. Keep it in a plastic shoe box on about 8 layers of wet paper towels pressed flat on the bottom. With a bark hide. Put about twelve 1/4 holes in the lid and check on it daily to make sure it stays moist. You want it wet but not with pools of standing of water. It's a new morph you want to be able check on it and make sure it finds food and does not digest co co fiber and other ****. This set up will also allow you to continue feeding it black worms along with garden worms chunks and fruit flies. You also want it stay clean and this is the best way. You can change it out every week with little effort and time.

Neotenic_Jaymes · Aug 2, 2012

Re: What species metamorph is this?

Bill B said:
I've had suggestions for Ambystoma laterale, A. maculatum, and A. tigrinum. It's about 2 inches long. I've been told that that one can tell tigrinum from the gold in the eyes? Can all three be determined from the color of the iris?

From the size and current color I'd have to say its a Ambystoma maculatum. It's true coloration won't appear just yet, give it 2-3 months. The head shape and body shape matches Yellow Spotted Salamander for sure. The current size sounds right also.
The small yellow specks you now see will turn into bigger yellow spots later on.

Eastern Tiger Salamanders have a different head and snout shape. Tiger Salamanders here have a slightly hooked snout unlike the metamorph shown in the picture. They're size at morphing ranges from 4-7 inches unlike the morph in the picture.

If it were a Blue Spotted Salamander there wouldn't be any yellow coloration at all. Ambystoma laterale, Ambystoma texanum and hybrid Ambystoma all look alike as morphs. But you can exclude all these as potential candidates. After seeing all the pictures posted and current size of metamorphosis I'm leaning towards A. macualtum.

Bill B · Aug 2, 2012

Re: What species metamorph is this?

Neotenic_Jaymes said:
From the size and current color I'd have to say its a Ambystoma maculatum. It's true coloration won't appear just yet, give it 2-3 months. The head shape and body shape matches Yellow Spotted Salamander for sure. The current size sounds right also.
The small yellow specks you now see will turn into bigger yellow spots later on.

Eastern Tiger Salamanders have a different head and snout shape. Tiger Salamanders here have a slightly hooked snout unlike the metamorph shown in the picture. They're size at morphing ranges from 4-7 inches unlike the morph in the picture.

If it were a Blue Spotted Salamander there wouldn't be any yellow coloration at all. Ambystoma laterale, Ambystoma texanum and hybrid Ambystoma all look alike as morphs. But you can exclude all these as potential candidates. After seeing all the pictures posted and current size of metamorphosis I'm leaning towards A. macualtum.

Jaymes, did you see my other thread yesterday that Holman's most recent book cites a source that says that A. tigrinum can morph at 2 inches under certain conditions? Maybe I should have put that thread here. Since you are in Michigan, you know the crazy (hot, dry) weather we've been having. The pond's standing weather was almost when I collected it.

Bill B · Aug 2, 2012

Re: What species metamorph is this?

Bill B said:
Jaymes, did you see my other thread yesterday that Holman's most recent book cites a source that says that A. tigrinum can morph at 2 inches under certain conditions? Maybe I should have put that thread here. Since you are in Michigan, you know the crazy (hot, dry) weather we've been having. The pond's standing weather was almost when I collected it.

Let's re-do that last sentence. Should be: The pond's standing WATER was almost GONE [this word was missing] when I collected it.

What species of salamander larvae are these? And, how do I keep them when they "grow up"?

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