Illness/Sickness: SICK Cynops Pyrrhogaster :(

zoezakella · Sep 23, 2012

Hoping someone on here can help me with my sick newt

I got Oddie & Garfield a few years ago from Evut and Oddie has always been the strongest, bigger one but for the last 3 days has refused worms which is not like him at all. His eyes have also gone bluey and big and just dont look right. He had a full shed the other day but still has lots of bits hanging off him, have helped him with some bits but he looks in poor shape

I had to seperate the two newts a few months back due to Garfield not being aquatic and staying at the top a lot, despite eating the same Garfield was a 1/3 of the size of Oddie and I decided to seperate them and since doing that Garfield has gone fully aquatic and doubled in size so it seems Oddie was the dominant one which was why Garfield favoured staying at the top of the tank on the leaves!

Water parameters are fine as is temperature. He is not on any substrate, just plants and a polyresin rock ornament.

Any advice on how I can help him would be much appreciated as I am worried about him and newt illness is a first for me so unsure if you can treat them in the same way you would an axololt!

THANKS, Zoe

zoezakella · Sep 23, 2012

Here is two piccies of Oddie taken 2 weeks ago, you can see the difference!

zoezakella · Sep 23, 2012

Having spoken with Julia (bellaballoo) she asked on whether his skin was shiny, 1st 2 piccies are off Oddie out of the water & 3rd piccy is of Garfield so you can compare the skin

Azhael · Sep 23, 2012

Sorry to hear about this, Zoe...
I wish i could give better advice but i only have suspicions of what this might be. I´ve seen it happen with some of my animals too (not C.pyrrhogaster, though) and my main hypothesis is some kind of infection but i have no idea if it´s bacterial, viral, fungal...Whatever it is, it seems to be rather common in a number of species and widespread among hobbyists.
I´ve had partial success by keeping such animals cool and making an effort in getting them to eat (waxworms are great for this purpose). Some never really recover and just get slowly thinner until weeks or even months later, it´s over.
If it´s an option, the ideal thing would be to take it to a vet and get some cultures. Other than that, cool temps, plenty of food and a lot of luck.

PS: I also suspect another possible cause which might be extremely low water hardness. We have ridiculously low hardness here and since i added limestone to my tanks, this kind of problem hasn´t shown its face, but this could be completely uncorrelated.

zoezakella · Sep 23, 2012

Rodrigo, really appreciate your time in trying to help Oddie.

Am gutted it may not be an easy thing for him to get over all I can do is try my very best for him and will get some wax worms first thing in the morning and see if that helps.

Its pretty cold here in the UK now and I know in the past with my sick axies instead of fridging them I put them into the conservatory as its pretty cold out there so would it be a good idea to put him into the conservatory for the time being??

Thanks so much again appreciate your help!

Zoe

Azhael · Sep 23, 2012

That´s what i would do. Other than the waxworms, which will help, i would only offer food items that are rich in calcium, like earthworms, crustaceans and perhaps even formulated pellets, just in case it´s in any way calcium related (which i can´t confirm but is a possibility and seemed to help in a couple of occasions). Bare in mind that all i´m saying here is purely speculative and based on superfitial observations on animals with nearly identical symptoms, but my suspicions may be entirely missguided.

I have heard of some newly discovered bacteria that appear to be widespread and cause this kind of symtoms, but without a veterinary screening i wouldn´t even know what to suggest as a course of action against such infections.

zoezakella · Sep 23, 2012

Lovely have just popped him out their so fingers crossed!

I must confess to being worried about taking him to a vets due to the lack of knowledge with some of them but I will do a phone around and see if I can find one that has some experience!

Again appreciate your time and help and I realise its not an easy thing for you to diagnose as such so thanks for at least trying to suggest things it all helps!

Thanks again, Zoe

Azhael said:
That´s what i would do. Other than the waxworms, which will help, i would only offer food items that are rich in calcium, like earthworms, crustaceans and perhaps even formulated pellets, just in case it´s in any way calcium related (which i can´t confirm but is a possibility and seemed to help in a couple of occasions). Bare in mind that all i´m saying here is purely speculative and based on superfitial observations on animals with nearly identical symptoms, but my suspicions may be entirely missguided.

I have heard of some newly discovered bacteria that appear to be widespread and cause this kind of symtoms, but without a veterinary screening i wouldn´t even know what to suggest as a course of action against such infections.

herpvet · Sep 24, 2012

zoezakella said:
Lovely have just popped him out their so fingers crossed!

I must confess to being worried about taking him to a vets due to the lack of knowledge with some of them but I will do a phone around and see if I can find one that has some experience!

Again appreciate your time and help and I realise its not an easy thing for you to diagnose as such so thanks for at least trying to suggest things it all helps!

Thanks again, Zoe

Hi,

I would certainly recommend getting him to a vet. Your local vets should have someone they refer to - there are some of us about!

Hope you can get him sorted out.

Bruce.

zoezakella · Sep 24, 2012

herpvet said:
Hi,

I would certainly recommend getting him to a vet. Your local vets should have someone they refer to - there are some of us about!

Hope you can get him sorted out.

Bruce.

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my thread!

Spoke to Rodrigo this am as Evut had suggested a possible salt bath. Despite getting some waxworms he is still not interested in any food and his eyes seem bluer this morning

Will do a ring around if you think they will be able to help as am at a loss with him!

Thanks again Zoe

zoezakella · Sep 25, 2012

Well our local exotic vet is back from holiday tomorrow BUT although Oddie is still not eating his skin is looking better and his eyes seem to be less blue so fingers crossed!!

zoezakella · Oct 13, 2012

Ok quick update for you! Spoke to the vet a few weeks ago and he said the same as Rodrigo, possible fungal infection / bacterial etc.

Anyway since the start of this I have kept him in his tank with low water to enable him to be aquatic or perch on top of plants etc as that was what he was doing for quite a while!

Anyway since then and for the last few weeks I am pleased to update Oddie is looking LOADS BETTER and is eating again (1st piccy eating a worm)

The only things still outstanding are his eyes are still a bit blue but his skin is back to normal BUT has got lighter and more brown with light speckles/mottling??, any ideas on why the skin would change colour???

He is fully aquatic again so obviously feeling a lot better and tonight he swam up halfway to get his dinner!

Am chuffed to bits that he has recovered despite the 2 above slight concerns and would like to thank especially Rodrigo for his support and help and all the others that have also helped (Evut, Bellabelloo & Bruce) very much appreciated!!!

Azhael · Oct 13, 2012

That´s fantastic! I´m very glad to see such a progress, well done!
The lighter skin tone is very normal. Some individuals seem to sift from light to dark more than others but every individual is capable of these changes. I think changes in temperature might have something to do with it. Anyway, you have nothing to worry about in that aspect.
The cloudy eyes might persist, not necessarily being a significant impediment, but they might also revert to normality in time.
It has good body weight and the skin looks very healthy indeed, so you can relax xD
Is it swimming and behaving normally?

zoezakella · Oct 13, 2012

Azhael said:
That´s fantastic! I´m very glad to see such a progress, well done!
The lighter skin tone is very normal. Some individuals seem to sift from light to dark more than others but every individual is capable of these changes. I think changes in temperature might have something to do with it. Anyway, you have nothing to worry about in that aspect.
The cloudy eyes might persist, not necessarily being a significant impediment, but they might also revert to normality in time.
It has good body weight and the skin looks very healthy indeed, so you can relax xD
Is it swimming and behaving normally?

Thanks Rodrigo

Thats good news regarding the skin

his eyes are nowhere near as bad so am glad

As for normal behavior yes he is completely back to normal so will move him back in soon!!

Again thanks so much for your help and support really do appreciate it, really thought I would lose Oddie so your help and support really helped!!

Bellabelloo · Oct 13, 2012

I was just peering at his some of his siblings, who are currently harassing the female(s). My males have changed colour for a while now, I was wondering if Oddie was developing some breeding colours.

zoezakella · Oct 14, 2012

bellabelloo said:
I was just peering at his some of his siblings, who are currently harassing the female(s). My males have changed colour for a while now, I was wondering if Oddie was developing some breeding colours.

Nice piccy Julia

Think you may be right, yours is looking good!! x

zoezakella · Oct 18, 2012

Have moved Oddie back into the house again, am really pleased with how well he is looking now

Here are some updated piccies for you, as you can see he is looking a lot better

zoezakella · Oct 30, 2012

Am sad to say I found Oddie upside down this morning am gutted.

RIP Oddie

hovercraft · Oct 30, 2012

Very sad

just when he seemed to be doing better. Do his tankmates seem healthy?

zoezakella · Oct 31, 2012

hovercraft said:
Very sad just when he seemed to be doing better. Do his tankmates seem healthy?

I only ever had 2 of them and seperated them a few months back due to Oddie beign the bigger one despite them eating the same. garfield would not go aquatic and it turned out it was Oddie dominating him. As soon as I seperated them garfield went aquatic within a week and is now the same size as what Oddie was so thankfully Garfield is fine due to being in a seperate tank.

Azhael · Oct 31, 2012

Argh....sorry Zoe...it looked like such a nice recovery...

Illness/Sickness: SICK Cynops Pyrrhogaster :(

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