NEED help cycling tank for the second time!

[MooncakeMyDudecake]

I've been following axolotl nerds advice on cycling my filters.

I've been doing water tests everyday and making sure my ammonia is topped up but my nitrites seem to have vanished...
These were taken last night and my ammonia read at 2ppm but now it's a murky yellow and green colour?
I've tried redoing my nitrite tests several times and I get the same result.
What's going on?????? Why won't my filters cycle?!?! I'm getting really really frustrated now cause I'm doing everything by the book!!
My high pH is 7.4 and my pH is 6.0
What the hell is going on here?
For anyone else - my axolotl is NOT in it's tank yet so please don't come at me with "DONT PUT YOUR AXOLOTL IN YOUR TANK" - I know that already, I want advice on THIS RIGHT HERE.
Please & Thank you, all relevant comments are appreciated a LOT at this point.

 

[BasilBear]

Hello, I’m not sure if I can be of much help but I believe it’s a really good sign that your nitrites are at 0! I really think that everything will cycle soon. I know from experience that cycling an aquarium can be a very painstaking and frankly, an annoying process. It took my aquarium 7 months to cycle! I’m quite sure that I was doing something wrong though so as far as I can tell I think your on your way to a cycled tank! Please keep us posted!

 

[BasilBear]

Sorry, I forgot to mention this in my post but if you would like to speed up the cycling process getting some live aquarium plants will help to lower that ammonia and Nitrates! Live plants have really helped me to keep my Axolotl happy and healthy in his tank and I think they will help you to!

 

[MooncakeMyDudecake]

Sorry, I forgot to mention this in my post but if you would like to speed up the cycling process getting some live aquarium plants will help to lower that ammonia and Nitrates! Live plants have really helped me to keep my Axolotl happy and healthy in his tank and I think they will help you to!

Ah yes, so I had tested my Nitrates and they were off the scale! I rang an aquatic specialist because I just wasn't getting answers in time, (Not you fault dw) so I was advised to start doing weekly water changes to get those nitrates and ammonia down, I have lots of plants in my aquarium atm including a big long root from an indoor plant called Monstera Deliciosa, got frogbit, java ferns, some scindapsis rooting in the water, would like to see if I can water culture an orchid to put on some tree roots in the aquarium too but we'll see

 

[BasilBear]

That all sounds great! Wow all of those plants is making my single Anubias Barteri look sad .

 

[MooncakeMyDudecake]

Hey guys so since ringing the aquatic specialist I've had elevated levels of ammonia in my tank. They just don't seem to be going down fast enough, I'm doing partial water changes (at round 50% - using Seachem Prime as dechlorinater) and last night after a water change, I put my small sponge filter which was in the tub with my axolotl in my tank, tested nitrites again a few mins later and there was nothing, although Nitrates were up to 80ppm and I could have tested too early, I'll do another test today and see what it reads and actually take pictures of my set up and the test results so you can all see whats going on in my tank. Gonna go pH tests too!

 

[wolfen]

the nitrogen cycle is waste > ammonia > nitrites > nitrates > water change/plants/denitrifying bacteria, if you have nitrates then you have had nitrites, with everything moving through the process but still having ammonia then it could be that the filter is to small and unable to house enough bacteria to do the job, unless you have a planted tank or live rocks (even a thick layer of sand, although that can cause issues in itself) the only way to reduce nitrates is through a water change. always dechlorinate the water before adding to the tank as the chlorine is harmful to the bacteria aswell as any inhabitant (and will crash the cycle), using any dechlorinater which contains sodium thiosulfate will suffice (no bells or whistles required).

 

[MooncakeMyDudecake]

the nitrogen cycle is waste > ammonia > nitrites > nitrates > water change/plants/denitrifying bacteria, if you have nitrates then you have had nitrites, with everything moving through the process but still having ammonia then it could be that the filter is to small and unable to house enough bacteria to do the job, unless you have a planted tank or live rocks (even a thick layer of sand, although that can cause issues in itself) the only way to reduce nitrates is through a water change. always dechlorinate the water before adding to the tank as the chlorine is harmful to the bacteria aswell as any inhabitant (and will crash the cycle), using any dechlorinater which contains sodium thiosulfate will suffice (no bells or whistles required)
I've still got the same issue though, too much ammonia, it's not going down in 24 hours. I've done a few water changes to get the nitrates down, doesn't seem to be many nitrites and I'm just having a hard time getting my ammonia to go down by itself, I'm using seachem prime to dechlorinate each time I put a bucket back in. There's plants, 2 filters and I even put a small sponge from a sponge filter I was using for Mooncakes tub... Still not a great deal happening.. am I topping up with ammonia at this point or am I stopping that? I don't get what I'm supposed to do.

pH is at 6.6
Ammonia at 2ppm
Nitrates at 20ppm

 

[MooncakeMyDudecake]

the nitrogen cycle is waste > ammonia > nitrites > nitrates > water change/plants/denitrifying bacteria, if you have nitrates then you have had nitrites, with everything moving through the process but still having ammonia then it could be that the filter is to small and unable to house enough bacteria to do the job, unless you have a planted tank or live rocks (even a thick layer of sand, although that can cause issues in itself) the only way to reduce nitrates is through a water change. always dechlorinate the water before adding to the tank as the chlorine is harmful to the bacteria aswell as any inhabitant (and will crash the cycle), using any dechlorinater which contains sodium thiosulfate will suffice (no bells or whistles required).

I understand the whole process in that what it SHOULD be doing but it's not going the way I thought it would .. hense the reason for this post.
I thought I was being dumb too but I don't know what the heck is going on.
Here's some photos please mind the state of my plants, some went mushy when I wasn't doing water changes. So yeah I've started water changes now. But I need that ammonia to go down naturally in 24 hours. So I need all the help I can get with this one...
Tanks next to a window and dw will be getting a new one when she's ready for one

 

[wolfen]

you have more than enough filter media in the tank by the looks of it. having the two eheim filters closer to the surface will stop them picking up sand, (had a look for the specs and it shows that they have to be 1cm under surface, which it a shame because they would be better just proud of the surface, more water agitation less movement plus less stress. also see about using a thin piece of filter floss fastened over the inlet vents as there has been issues with axies get limbs trapped in them). might be a idea to have a valve fitted to the air line to reduce output (more bubbles don't mean more oxygenation, slow small bubbles dissolve better than large and fast). don't rely on a conditioner to do what the bacteria will do. to speed up and increase colonisation of the filters use pond filter start, pond bacteria are better at coping with colder temps, speaking of temperatures increasing the temperature whilst cycling will help the multiplying rate of bacteria. the ph is to low and can inhibit bacteria growth. adding a calcium source (crushes coral, limestone, calcium carbonate etc..) will help bring up and help buffer the ph an gh, bicarbonated soda (baking soda) can be used to bring ph up quite quickly. hornwort does tend to have a habit of going mushy (seems to be quite happy in stagnant ponds though) so will need the dead bits removing so it doesn't add to the bio load, the floating plants seem to be ok (frogbit by the looks of it) but bare in mind they never seem to be happy in moderate to hard water which is what axies require.

 

[wolfen]

pH is at 6.6
Ammonia at 2ppm
Nitrates at 20ppm

just top the ammonia back to 4ppm every 24hrs until you are getting 0ppm at testing, don't do a nitrate change unless the nitrates are at least 110ppm (yes I know the plants may suffer but the bacteria needs to be as undisturbed as possible, once the tank is cycled nitrates can then be reduced with water changes.

 

[MooncakeMyDudecake]

you have more than enough filter media in the tank by the looks of it. having the two eheim filters closer to the surface will stop them picking up sand, (had a look for the specs and it shows that they have to be 1cm under surface, which it a shame because they would be better just proud of the surface, more water agitation less movement plus less stress. also see about using a thin piece of filter floss fastened over the inlet vents as there has been issues with axies get limbs trapped in them). might be a idea to have a valve fitted to the air line to reduce output (more bubbles don't mean more oxygenation, slow small bubbles dissolve better than large and fast). don't rely on a conditioner to do what the bacteria will do. to speed up and increase colonisation of the filters use pond filter start, pond bacteria are better at coping with colder temps, speaking of temperatures increasing the temperature whilst cycling will help the multiplying rate of bacteria. the ph is to low and can inhibit bacteria growth. adding a calcium source (crushes coral, limestone, calcium carbonate etc..) will help bring up and help buffer the ph an gh, bicarbonated soda (baking soda) can be used to bring ph up quite quickly. hornwort does tend to have a habit of going mushy (seems to be quite happy in stagnant ponds though) so will need the dead bits removing so it doesn't add to the bio load, the floating plants seem to be ok (frogbit by the looks of it) but bare in mind they never seem to be happy in moderate to hard water which is what axies require.

Okay that is amazing thank you so much for all this info. Just to kinda cut to the chase. I THINK I may have some limestone from a quarry that I picked up on my adventures (I'm sad and I collect rocks lol) it's washed and sterilized but I could put that in the tank to help with pH? I'll look into pond filter starters but I'm tight on cash right now.. I'll remove the dead or dieing plants.
Only things I'm unsure of are the filter floss and the inlet things you spoke of, do you mean where the water comes out and creates a current? Or in the bottom? Also I think I have a valve for the airflow.. Can you show me what they look like please?

 

[wolfen]

Okay that is amazing thank you so much for all this info. Just to kinda cut to the chase. I THINK I may have some limestone from a quarry that I picked up on my adventures (I'm sad and I collect rocks lol) it's washed and sterilized but I could put that in the tank to help with pH? I'll look into pond filter starters but I'm tight on cash right now.. I'll remove the dead or dieing plants.
Only things I'm unsure of are the filter floss and the inlet things you spoke of, do you mean where the water comes out and creates a current? Or in the bottom? Also I think I have a valve for the airflow.. Can you show me what they look like please?

limestone is perfect for axie tank, the inlet vents are the issue people are having as axies love going up to the inlet but then getting sucked onto it. I've added pictures of filter floss and the valve/tap (not my pictures just taken from ebay).

 

[wolfen]

limestone is perfect for axie tank, the inlet vents are the issue people are having as axies love going up to the inlet but then getting sucked onto it. I've added pictures of filter floss and the valve/tap (not my pictures just taken from ebay).

almost forgot the inlet is at the bottom of the filters.

 

[MooncakeMyDudecake]

almost forgot the inlet is at the bottom of the filters.

So the inlets are these vents at the bottoms of my filters. Cool I'll look into those other things.
And this is my lump of limestone. Had to check with a Rock ID app and this came up straight away

 

[MooncakeMyDudecake]

almost forgot the inlet is at the bottom of the filters.

Also my water parameters ATM. Then I added 56 drops to top up ammonia to 4ppm, am I doing this right? Lol

 

[wolfen]

Also my water parameters ATM. Then I added 56 drops to top up ammonia to 4ppm, am I doing this right? Lol

Yes you are doing the right thing with your dosing.
The easiest way of working out if it is limestone is to drip some vinegar on it, if it fizzes then it's limestone.
And yep that's the inlet vents.
now for the confusing part ph or low ph measures from ph 6 to 7.6 and the high ph measures from ph 7.4 to 8.8 which makes a combined ph test of ph 6 to 8.8 (the high ph continues where the low ph finishes, also why salt water tanks don't use low ph test) so having 6.6 and 7.8 is a bit confusing can you post a picture up.

 

[MooncakeMyDudecake]

Yes you are doing the right thing with your dosing.
The easiest way of working out if it is limestone is to drip some vinegar on it, if it fizzes then it's limestone.
And yep that's the inlet vents.
now for the confusing part ph or low ph measures from ph 6 to 7.6 and the high ph measures from ph 7.4 to 8.8 which makes a combined ph test of ph 6 to 8.8 (the high ph continues where the low ph finishes, also why salt water tanks don't use low ph test) so having 6.6 and 7.8 is a bit confusing can you post a picture up.

Thank you! And sure! I took these this morning.. the ammonia is way too high though, I put 56 drops in last night should I do a water change?

Here's the parameters..
Please excuse the mess
The low pH changed as time went on and I don't know what to do with all this ammonia, water change maybe?
I wanna test nitrates as well since my nitrites don't seem to ever show now.. which is what makes me feel like this should be near the end of my cycle now

 

[wolfen]

Looking at the ph i'd say it is very low which will lock the ammonia, which then makes it harder for the bacteria to eat/convert it, but at the same time renders it harmless.
your ph (potential of hydrogen) is 6.6 which is slightly acidic (measure the ph with the low ph, if it tests blue then test with the high ph otherwise go with the low ph test). Your ph will be being brought down by the driftwood and the hydrogen ions released during the nitrogen cycle.
If your TAN (total ammonia nitrogen) is 4ppm, your ph is 6.6 and your temperature is 19°c (get a thermometer that reads lower then 19°c) then your free ammonia (the toxic ammonia) is 0.0058ppm which is very low and is relatively harmless (but it is the bacteria's food so they will be being starved), where as the ammonium (the non-toxic ammonia) is at 3.9942ppm which is harmless but the bacteria has great difficulty breaking it down.
Use baking soda (bicarbonated soda) to bring the ph to 7.4 (low ph blue, high ph tan) which will increase the free ammonia (at 4ppm TAN brings it to 0.0361ppm) and make it more available to the bacteria to eat/convert. (as more ammonia is consumed the more ammonium becomes free ammonia is consumed until there is no more ammonia (TAN).
Adding a heater whilst cycling set at 24°c will also bring the free ammonia levels up and the ammonium levels down, ie.. at ph7.4 4ppm TAN free ammonia is 0.0531.
Cycling is a vicious circle, the ammonia (slightly alkali) brings the ph up, but as the ammonia is consumed/converted then the hydrogen released brings the ph down.
I use Free Ammonia Calculator to work out the free-ammonia/ammonium and also Your Guide to Ammonia Toxicity - Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community has a good chart to work out the lethality of the free-ammonia (doesn't matter if it is pond/tropical/brackish/saltwater/marine ammonia acts the same way)
In any tank if the free-ammonia is within safe levels then it is the nitrites to watch out for as they are harmful at all levels.

 

[MooncakeMyDudecake]

On a side note, I'm now getting blue algae