granulosa metamorphs staying aquatic??

Jennewt

Jennewt

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I have a group of Taricha granulosa that are around metamorphosis (some still larvae, some fully morphed). To my surprise, they don't seem to want to stay out of the water. The fully morphed ones are still spending most of their time in the water and feeding in the water. Is this typical?
 

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Looking good Jen! Mine are all still larvae, but most of them have begun to change color, so I'm sure metamorphosis is just around the corner. What length are yours now?

I'm not sure if it's normal for them to want to stay in the water, but I like my aquatic newts so I hope mine are the same way.
 
Congrats Jen. You have gotten into Taricha? o_O
 
T.g's

Jenn I have had granulosas for close to 20 years. My current family is I believe, seven years old. None of them has ever had an interest in terrestrial life. At one time I put a few in a 30g with 90% land and a small depression that served as a watering hole. ALL of them were in that puddle all the time. I eventually just said the hell with it and did my current 58g with just a few scattered land areas and probably 45g of water. They only leave the water occasionally. I always believed they were primarily terrestrial once morphed but I have yet to see any proof of it in my house.
 
There are quite a lot of newts that are fully aquatic as adults, but absolutely hydrophobic as juveniles. From what I have read, T. granulosa juveniles are always found in terrestrial places in the wild, which led me to expect the usual hydrophobic response (clinging to the island, climbing the glass, skin becoming dry looking). T. granulosa adults (outside breeding season) are found in both terrestrial and aquatic habitats, and in captivity are well documented to willingly stay fully aquatic.

Since my post above, I'm seeing more symptoms of hydrophobia. None of them are dry looking, but some are climbing, and some of the ones still in the water seem to be doing too much swimming - as if they are looking for a way out. I'll add more land and see what happens. I think I see a terrarium headed my way...:cool:
 
I think this dilemma applies to a lot of species (e.g. Neuergus kaiseri). Just because it is possible to persuade animals which normally experience a terrestrial phase to remain aquatic doesn't mean it is best for the animals in the long term. Yes, aquatic animals do generally eat more, are more visible and grow faster than terrestrial individuals of the same species, but it's difficult to be sure what the long term effects of the physiological alterations induced might be. Are their kidneys working much harder to maintain an osmotic balance and will this lead to long term health effects?
 
Here's a quick update. I have moved 4 of the most hydrophobic morphs into a terrarium, where they seem to be doing quite well, except that I can't tell if they are eating. The dilemma, as usual, is what to feed them. They are a bit too big for fruit flies. I'll try the chopped-worms-in-a-dish method.

The others are still apparently content with aquatic life. But I'll still have to wait and see. Here are a couple of shots of the ones still in the aquatic setup.



 
Jen, you make me so jealous and proud at the same time! Those metamorphs are adorable!

As for remaining aquatic, if you basement is cold enough, do you think a few of your animals have remained neotonic? It's known that T. granulosa may postpone metamorphosis for a year if the temperatures are low. From the picture you took, it looks like the two in the water still have gills.

I was also wondering (and this is speculative) if the information concerning the juveniles may pertain more to T. torosa instead of T. granulosa. T. torosa are known for being less aquatic overall, but perhaps the juveniles even more so. Mine literally crawled up the sides of the tank to escape the water and wanted nothing to do with it for over a year.
 
Just got back from observing a pond(well...a giant puddle) that T. granulosa breed in. Though no adults were observed in the pool I was very surprised to see little juveniles swimming around. They were all uniform size and so must have been YOY.

(if that is so, they also must grow pretty fast as they looked about as big as some of my 1 yr old popei!).
 
Hi Jen,

I tried several times to keep the metamorphs in the water, but they don´t. Worst case would be drowning. But You can try to bring them back to the water after about 1 year of age.

UG
 
Thanks for the input, Uwe, I was hoping to get your opinion.

I've moved about half of the metamorphs to a soil-substrate terrestrial tank, and they are doing well. I've kept the other half in the tank shown (6 inches of water, lots of plants, flat brick island). The aquatic ones are also doing well. They go in and out of the water voluntarily, and eat in the water. If I see any sign of problems, I will remove them.

Joseph, that's an interesting observation. I wonder if the juveniles you saw were year-olds or younger ones. If they are too young to breed, I wonder why they went back in the water - perhaps for Daphnia or other food there?
 
newts

Jen,
Try taking live blackworms and putting them in a small dish. I always do this when i'm out of terrestrial food.
 
When I had them I noticed that if there was any deep water source, they would stay in it all the time.
 
My juves are fully terrestrial. I tried putting in a very shallow lid full of water, but they didn't want to know. They eat small crickets, tropical white woodlice, small earthworms and live bloodworm.

I was under the impression that a terrestrial phase was necessary for newts, as it allowed their lungs etc. to develop properly?

Nice photos by the way! :)
 
I've continued to keep the morphs split: half of them are still mainly aquatic, half are completely terrestrial. Like yours, Louise, my terrestrial ones refuse to TOUCH the water dish. I have never seen one near it, and they've ignored all food in it. However, the semiaquatic group is still doing well, and eats entirely in the water, and are growing a bit faster. I think that in order to stay aquatic, they must morph at a fairly large size - mine were large compared to what other people have described for T gran morphs. I selected the aquatic group from among the individuals that seemed more inclined to stay in the water of their own free will.

Glad you like the photos.:D

Pin-pin, none of mine were neotenic. In the photo, a couple had not finished morphing. But they did morph fully, and in the usual timeframe. If you're jealous you'll just have to move back to the US so I can share some;)
 
I was also keeping a group of morphs aquatic and another terrestrial. My results were similar to Jen's in that the aquatic morphs seemed to grow faster, however, I did find that they seemed to do more frantic swimming as they got older and I started finding them on their islands more than in the water. So I moved them to a terrestrial set up. At this point they all will eat blackworms out of a water dish and I do see them in the water off and on but for the most part they like the moist soil near the water but not in it. Though I do agree that in general they seem to be less hydrophobic then juviniles of other species that I have kept.
 
I'm still keeping my granulosa morphs from that group in a 2/3 water, 1/3 land enclosure. The water is about 2 inches deep with plenty of plants for them to rest on. They still go into the water frequently.

Two of them still have full gills and don't show signs of morphing. The others morphed months ago.
 
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