Help. Tylototriton shanjing freshly morphed juveniles.

Hello,

I've recently purchased a small group of T. shanjing. I thought they will be mature specimens however I done with group of freshly morphed juveniles. They still have remains of gills (small dark spots) in 'used-to-be-gill-rakes'.

I have them for two days and I'm not sure if I'm housing them properly. Also I have a big problem with feeding them.

I've had well prepared vivarium for mature ones with big land area and small body of shallow water however when I saw my tiny animals I immediatelly set up an aquarium with damp paper towel as substrate and few hiding places in rock piles. I know they would probably be better in this setup for mature specimens however they are so tiny and I don't really have much experience in keeping so young caudates I want to monitor them closely for few first week just to be sure they are doing fine and it will be easier in simple setup like paper towel I guess.

What temperature should I keep them in?
I've tried feeding them with live bloodworms (I've had them in refrigerator). One ate about 10. The rest is not interested in feeding at all. They are also rather inactive. Just hiding and not moving much except one specimen which vigorously is patroling his new home, climbing on rocks and so on .

Moisure is high (towel is really damp) however this one wandering specimen has rather dry sking (however it looks the happies from the group).

I've seen in other topics photos of feeding juveniles. They were probably eating blackworms which are sadly not available in my part of the world.
Any tips about feeding my little gems?

I have my own setups for crickets, wax worms grindal worms and micro worms however they will be either too big or too small for my animals.

Here are few photos and a movie (sorry for a quality, my camera is down so photos were taken by mobile phone):

YouTube - tylotriton.avi

This is the most active specimen:


This one was eating bloodworms:


Well this is just a tail however it shows how setup looks like


So in conclusion I would like to know what should I feed them with and what temperature should I keep them. Also what should I change in my setup. Add more water?

Also during browsing other topic I found (in different setup) that during leaving water and loosing gills and few first days after metamorphosis juveniles won't eat at all.
Is this also true with this species?

Thanks!
Sumiki info

I keep juveniles in a plastic box, with 2 cm of peat, some moss. Temp around 22°C. Not too moist. A little dish with 2-3 mm of water (they drown easily). Food: bean-lice, white-worms, tubifex-worms, chopped eathworms and springtailes. Feed a lot!

Hello catfish dude,
I have mine, which are more or less the same size as yours, two weeks ago and have not eaten anything at all! I have them in a small plastic box with paper towel, moss and some caches! The problem here is that the night temperatures are 5 º C and day 13 ° C to 15 º c. He is very lethargic but their metabolism is active, which causes me to lose weight is, I do not know what to do too!
Joost by chance do not know how I can do to increase the temperature inside the box, so that they are again active and they eat?
tanks

I am keeping some I recently got and was having trouble with them until I made the tank MUCH moister -- like here, "Marshy" (#2).
http://www.caudata.org/forum/f1173-...cussion/65948-describing-moisture-levels.html

I have very strong doubts if this is really T. shanjing... Certainly judging from the movie you made, it seems that you recieved cb Tylototriton verrucosus!

It's funny that I also seemed to be T.verrucosus, but as I have little experience with this genus not want to risk to say something!
otterwoman are you sure that your newts do well in a setup so humid? I heard that should be dry with only a small pool or a more humid!

Lusiwarrior said:

Hello catfish dude,
I have mine, which are more or less the same size as yours, two weeks ago and have not eaten anything at all! I have them in a small plastic box with paper towel, moss and some caches! The problem here is that the night temperatures are 5 º C and day 13 ° C to 15 º c. He is very lethargic but their metabolism is active, which causes me to lose weight is, I do not know what to do too!
Joost by chance do not know how I can do to increase the temperature inside the box, so that they are again active and they eat?
tanks

Click to expand...

Move your box to a warmer room. Juveniles should be kept warmer, they will eat better. In my experience they are very big eaters!

wouter said:

I have very strong doubts if this is really T. shanjing... Certainly judging from the movie you made, it seems that you recieved cb Tylototriton verrucosus!

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I also agree with Wouter. If they are the light form of verrucosus, a whole different setup is needed. Make sure what species you've got

Hey,

I must say that I didn't expected finding T. shanjing in my country since they are rare and expensive species and in Poland there is no many people interested in keeping caudates.

So believe me chances of finding even axolotl are really low. However I found one person after few weeks of searching. In Wroclaw. I didn't also expected thet they will be so small juveniles. So I called this person just after I set them in their home to ask if he breed them.
He answered that he didn't spawn them but they were taken from ZOO garden from Wroclaw where parents are kept. And he asured me that they were fully morphed and left water about a week ago for sure. I've also asked if they are not Tylototriton verrucosus because they didn't look much like T. shanjing which I've seen on photos - he assured me that they are indeed T. shanjing.

However I must say I'm in keeping fish for many years and there is a lot of not fully honest people around so I don't belive sellers that much as I used to.

What features for sure will tell you guys if this is verrucosus or shanjing? My camera is charging and tomorow morning I should be able to do decent photos for identification. There are for sure features which will help in telling this two species apart however I'm not aware of them so please tell me what parts of the body I should photograph.

I manage to feed 3 of 4 animals I have so I guess they will be ok in few days.
As a food I've used bloodworms but bigger version sometimes used by anglers as a bait.

Thank you very much for help.

I'm mainly in doubt because of the extremely triangular headshape, dark color of the entire body, but especially the dark color of the spine and tail. Although new metamorphs still have to develop their full pattern it should be present if they are the size of your animals (judging from the movie). If they are verrucosus they could just as well be any dark variant.

By the way, the individual on the second photo looks extraordinary light (everywhere), perhaps even leucistic?

Please note, I'm not 100% sure! You should be able to tell in a few months.

determine with juveniles is indeed hard. They look very similar. The problem is now what setup this Tylo's aquire

Hello,

I've manage to take pictures of every specimen I have. I hope you will be able to tell what species they are since I really don't want to kill this poor little creatures because of misidentification.

Here they are.

Specimen 1 (biggest one, with nice appetite):









Specimen 2:




Specimen 3:






Specimen 4:






They movements are sluggish but they are active. When I remove pile rock from aquarium they start to move for searching of hide spots .

Thanks!

Hello,

since I'm ill and have some free time I've browsed through cc pages and I'm almost sure I have verrucosus not shanjing. However it would be great to hear a word or two about my opinion from experts.

Should I switch to aquatic setup with few islands? If I understand correctly I should keep this species in water temperature around 23-24C? Also what water level is safe for juveniles? I don't want to drown them .

Regards and thank you very much for so much help and probably rescuing this caudates

Thanks for the advice Joost! :happy:
Catfish dude I still find them a little different from mine, and look I am sure that mine are T.shanjing! However, it is best to wait for another opinion!

Hey Catfishdude,
I am not an expert but I have raised T. verrucosus and have had T. shanjing babies to compare them to, and I think you have T. verr.

Hello,

I've been browsing for last few hours through reptiles and amphibians polish pages and found enough info.

I was searching for topics about trips to ZOO garden in Wroclaw.

However I was unable to find photos I've found few posts about misidentification of Tylototriton. So mine are T. verrucosus but seller thought they are really T. shanjing.

Thanks every one for so much help .

Otterwoman, I've seen your movies about Eddie and Elektra and their babies! They are great. Thanks to those movies I have also an idea how should I setup a tank for freshly morphed juveniles.

Could you please tell me two more things. What is water depth in juvieniles tank and what temperature you keep them in?

Regards.

try a temporary aquatic setup, for them. If they go aquatic, you can keep it like this way. And if they do, it's probably verrucosus. Shanjing will not go aquatic at their age.

catfish dude said:

Could you please tell me two more things. What is water depth in juvieniles tank and what temperature you keep them in?
Regards.

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I don't have any water in the juveniles' tank. I keep them terrestrially in a tank like this:
http://www.caudata.org/forum/f1173-...cussion/65948-describing-moisture-levels.html
#3 "wet". They are kept in whatever the temp of the basement happens to be, about 62 right now.
*I checked and it's actually 58 right now.
I will keep them terrestrial until they are a year + old (i.e. morphed this year, so spring of 2011) and then give them a 50-50 tank such as:

New Tylo Urodelarium - Caudata.org Newt and Salamander Forum

The shanjing I am keeping at moisture level #2 ("marshy").

otterwoman said:

The shanjing I am keeping at moisture level #2 ("marshy").

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I think this is way to moistered for shanjing. I hope they will do fine, on long term

Joost said:

I think this is way to moistered for shanjing. I hope they will do fine, on long term

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I don't agree. I was having trouble keeping them alive and I consulted with the person that bred them, and he advised me to keep them like that. They are doing great now.