L vulgaris breeding in july

raptor86 · Jul 10, 2010

So i found today a breeding population of L vulgaris...a couple of females heavy with egs and some males.....the habitat is a water fountain in the park, not really suited for newts because the water may be treated with chlorine and there is no suitable food..
The newts used to breed in a nearby artificial pond that was dry for at least 8 years.The pond used to had hundreds of newts bouth L vulgaris and T cristatus.
So why the newts breed now when they'r normal breeding season is april-june?
The aswer is simple(or so i think)..the heavy rains fallen the last weeks had driven the newts that haven't bred in 8 years to find breedings grounds and the only one availble was the fountain...sadlly for the newts, the larvae won't survive because the fountain is regulary drained and cleaned..
A male that i caught there:

Azhael · Jul 10, 2010

Beautiful animal.
I´m pretty sure it´s illegal to catch them in Romania. Please, check the law and act accordingly.

I´ve found L.helveticus in july and even august, in full breeding mode...it´s rare but certainly not impossible.
Also, some populations have variations in their breeding cycles.

raptor86 · Jul 11, 2010

Hey, i know it's illegal to take them from the natural habitat, or in this case the artificial habitat, but i took the newt fron there for it's own safety....the fountain will be drained soon and cleaned and the newts will be most likely killed...
Anyway, the good news is that they'r breeding pond is in restauration and by august will be filled with water and they will be able to breed there...any newt that i take from the fountain will be released in the pond.
The interesting fact about all this is that some larvaes will probably overwinter in water.

Azhael · Jul 11, 2010

I know why you did it, and i obviously can´t condemn it...the fact remains, though, it´s illegal.
Taking them home and releasing them back is a dangerous businness...do you have any other amphibians at home?

raptor86 · Jul 12, 2010

To avoid contamination with diseases and bacteria i keep this wild caught newts in a separate tank...don't mix water and plants from my captive newts.
This is a unique colored female captured today(never saw this coloration on L vulgaris), you can see a faint blue line on her tale:

Azhael · Jul 12, 2010

You´ll need to do more than that. Just being in the same room, or using the same tweezers, is a risk.
Instead of taking them from the wild yourself, you should have contacted some local group or authority and bring their attention to this situation. It´s ridiculous that they are taking no consideration to this population. However, the way to solve this things is not to do things by oneself..you could, inadvertedly, and despite your best intentions and whises, create a lot more damage than they are.

deliriah · Jul 12, 2010

I have to agree with Azhael. It is sad that these guys have nowhere else to go, and that there seems to be little concern from those responsible for keeping the fountain. But you do need to take extreme precautions against possible contaminations while keeping these guys captively. You could release pathogens into their wild habitat that could destroy the entire population. Not to mention local laws that are in place to prevent the spread of such diseases. I can sympathize with you and your reasons, completely, but please take care not to do more damage than is already being done. If you insist on keeping them and releasing them I hope they are being kept far from other captive amphibians, and ALL equiptment, water, etc. needs to be stuff that is NEVER used for the other amphibians.

warrior · Jul 12, 2010

Why did my post that I posted yesterday not appear?I will post it again then Mr.high and mighty moderator.Raptor86 collected some newts he felt would die if left there,what is the problem?He said he will release them back.I don't agree with collecting if illegal but it is for the newts benefit.I would also want to help the newts if they wer'e in a death situation.To AZheal,why do you give him a hard time about it?It is his problem and why did you erase my post?Because I didn't agree with you?

Azhael · Jul 12, 2010

Bare in mind that releasing animals back into the wild is also illegal.
If we are advicing against all this is not because we don´t agree with the idea that they need to be saved...obviously....it´s because no matter what we think, it is illegal to take them and to release them. We can´t condone illegal actions.

I would like to repeat that the right course of action is to inform the adequate people.

deliriah · Jul 12, 2010

Again Azhael is correct, There are reasons for these laws and breaking them is not advisable. Please see what you can do to help by trying to contact a local organization to help out. Someone whose job it is to protect native species and their habitat.

Otterwoman · Jul 12, 2010

warrior said:
Why did my post that I posted yesterday not appear?I will post it again then Mr.high and mighty moderator.Raptor86 collected some newts he felt would die if left there,what is the problem?He said he will release them back.I don't agree with collecting if illegal but it is for the newts benefit.I would also want to help the newts if they wer'e in a death situation.To AZheal,why do you give him a hard time about it?It is his problem and why did you erase my post?Because I didn't agree with you?

Warrior,
Your post from yesterday may not have been approved because it was rude. It could have been phrased more diplomatically. It is not only Azhael who approves posts, no need to be sarcastic with your titles. There are reasons why you should not release newts back into the wild, a major one being the spread of diseases, as deliriah said, and as Azhael rightly said, we cannot condone illegal activities. What people would do personally shouldn't be advertised on a site that is sometimes monitored by agencies that could very well come after you. You have to be less confrontational, and more circumspect.

eljorgo · Jul 12, 2010

I guess we are being too pessimistic... I´m the only one seeing good intentions in this?
He don't replies for a few time and haves tons of repetitive enquires to swallow all at once. What is said I said. "To a good learner haft word is enough". If its illegal or dangerous in therms of disease it was his option to risk it out. Every one knows it self and the risks his intentions are up to. I am not saying its a positive act to collect animals, but to have courage enough in order to protect a specie is, at my eyes, very positive.

Cheers,

deliriah · Jul 12, 2010

Warrior, please don't trash the moderators for doing their jobs. They are here to help and to be sure that our posts are helpful and not hurtful. I cannot say that I would not be tempted to do the same thing as raptor86 did. It bothers me that these amphibians are in the situation they are in. But I personally think that after cosidering the situation the best plan of action would be to contact wildlife experts or the equivalent and insist that something be done about it.

Azhael · Jul 12, 2010

Seriously??? Am i really the bad guy that doesn´t see that his intentions are good?? Wow.....

Even if it´s a very small, tinny chance, the possibility of introducing patogens exists. Now, let´s say it happens...and the population is decimated (with the possibility of the patogen being spread elsewhere from there)...what then?

There are ways to do these things, and in this case, the proper, responsible way is to contact the authorities, not doing what he has done. OF COURSE his intentions are good...but his methods are not apropriate. Many mistakes have been born from the best of intentions....and these days, with the global state of amphibians, every precaution is important, and every risk should be avoided when possible.

I don´t think i can make it any clearer. And i´m certainly not attacking Raptor, i´m just trying to make him see that there are better ways to achieve his noble intentions, ways without risks or illegal actions.

deliriah · Jul 12, 2010

Not at all Azhael, to me it seemed clear that you knew his intentions were good to begin with. You were only trying to advise against breaking the laws and spreading diseases that could have a serious impact on the wild populations in the area and possibly beyond.

It is sad that Azhael is looked at as the bad guy, here.

Raptor your intentions are noble, no doubt. I'm sorry if you or anyone else is offended by mine or anyone elses views.

otolith · Jul 12, 2010

Half of the replies in this thread are the same two people congratulating themselves on how much they know and how responsible they are and accusing someone who noticed a problem and tried to do something to help. This does absolutely nothing to help Raptor or the newts he tried to save and rather than be addressed in a constructive and positive way merely points fingers and places blame. You guys know a lot, thats great, try sharing it in a way that does not alienate others. Azhael, I feel you could have handled yourself in a much less condescending way and still have address all of your points.

Everytime I see a thread like this with an overwhelmingly self righteous attitude I feel less enthusiastic about this forum.

Neotenic_Jaymes · Jul 13, 2010

Azhael is a great moderator with much wisdom. A lot of his statements and posts have lots of science and knowledge that has helped many people. Taking illegal animals is a crime and releasing captured animals is a crime. Releasing a captured infected animal and spreading disease and sickness is a crime to Mother Nature.

Bellabelloo · Jul 13, 2010

This post is loosing its point.
Please focus on the initial contents of the post, that the newts are breeding out of season.
Julia

deliriah · Jul 13, 2010

Though Julia is right we should stick to the original spirit of the thread, I do not feel that I or Azhael meant to be condescending. I for one do not claim to know all that much in the first place. I only meant to give helpful respectful information to raptor in regards to the laws and the safety of the population. I do respect raptor for doing what he felt he needed to do. And though I cannot speak for Azhael, I felt he was doing the same as I. Again I apologize for any negative feelings. I would never wish to drive anyone away from this forum, by showing off my knowledge. I only wanted to help as so many here have done for me. Julia I am sorry for continuing to detract from the true nature of this thread. Anyone else that would like to discuss anything I have said further, can PM me and I'd be more than happy to reply, in a hopefully helpful and respectful manner.

raptor86 · Jul 13, 2010

Wow!!! Anyway, i am happy to say that the situation has been resolved and the keeper of the fountain just promised to ''not kill'' any newt when he will clean it(that was today under my watch) and the newt are back breeding happyfully..
Regarding the collecting of wild specimens and returning them back i have to agree to Azhael because, afterall, the law is the law.

L vulgaris breeding in july

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