Triturus Marmoratus embryonic development

thanks!

I got a bit nervous about them lost in the big 5-ga and put them in a shallow tub w. hornwort and no filter and a snowstorm of brine shrimps. I'll keep them in there until they are definitely free swimming and feeding.

When you "snowstorm" them don't you get tons of dead brine shrimp ? I find I have to make 100% water changes every day if feeding heavily on brine shrimp.

I keep my larvae at about 10 degrees F colder than most people (ca. 58 F), and I'm finding out that it makes a HUGE difference in terms of development times, such as hatching and yolk absorption. Mine seem to take almost twice as long as most times posted on the forum.

I guess it goes with the old Q-10 rule I learned in chemistry, that the speed in chemical reactions approx. doubles with each 10-degree C increase in temperature

As the larvae continue to grow most have grown back limbs.

Do I lower the water level at this point or wait?

Today the larvae have had their first meal of glassworms.

Of course some are reluctant!!

The reluctant one are looking as if to say.......

"where is the live stuff?" a.k.a. brine shrimp

The larvae with the back limbs are more interested than those without back limbs.

The larvae that was pale in color died.

Also the larvae that had the twisted spine did not make it either.

Otherwise, the other 23 appear alright.

I wouldn't lower the water level.

My Marm babes have started eating like good babies. Mama loves to see those full bellies.
One of them took 9 days after hatching to start eating!

Fat newts = happy Mama.

See pics!

Looking good! Yours are only a little further behind mine, and I bet with your happy mamma feeding regime they will probably overtake. They really are excellent fun to raise.

awesome pic, Mark. So they get black spots on the tail? I love the transparent look and the long grinch fingers - like little ghosts.

What camera/lens do you use? I want to buy a better camera for close-ups than my ditzy little point-and shoot....

Mine are pretty big at this point too, like Mark's.

Molch said:

What camera/lens do you use? I want to buy a better camera for close-ups than my ditzy little point-and shoot....

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That photo is taken through the side of a scratched plastic tub so it's not really showing the camera at it's best.

I have a Canon 5D mark II with a 100mm macro lens. It's a pretty pricey set-up so I wouldn't recommend it to someone looking to upgrade from a point and shoot. A budget Canon or Nikon D-SLR with a macro lens will produce very good results. It really depends how much you want to spend. Cameras can be an expensive hobby...

thanks Mark. Before everybody went digital, I had a pretty good film camera for wildlife photography and even had some published. I've been wanting to get a "real" digital camera for a while, just have been short on time to research all the options.

I'll check out the one you mentioned - thanks

Marks right. His setup based of the items and the prices I saw some months ago can go up to 3600€, nearly 5000USD i guess. Really pricey, but hey, awesome material no doubt!!

esnailme said:

The larvae that was pale in color died.
Also the larvae that had the twisted spine did not make it either.

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I had my first loss too - one ended up dead for no known reason - I immediately transferred the others to a new container and cleaned out the old one because I'm paranoid about bacterial infections. All other look fine though.

I'm still unsure about feeding brine shrimp while larvae are in a regular tank. Even when vacuuming daily with a hose as carefully as possible, I'll miss some dead BBS, and then I fear that bacterial colonies will jump up where dead BBS stick to the tank corners etc. I don't know if the sponge filter alone can handle that. Shouldn't you do 100% water change AND wipe the corners every day when feeding brine shrimp?

I took more pictures of my babies.

I also had a very unfortunate mishap!!!!!

I am not going to beat myself up.

I unintentionally squished one of the larvae while breaking down the tank

My babies are really growing.

They had their first meal of whiteworms.

This definitely has given their tummies a different shape and a different fill.

They have also had bloodworms.

I think they preferred that the blood worms moved around a little.

I hope you enjoy the pics.

Great pics :] Don't beat yourself up too much, that is unfortunate but you live and you learn.

esnailme - nice lookin' babes! Do you have a pic of the whole setup? Is it still a 5-ga? Any plants? How many larvae are in there?

Mine have started taking food from forceps which is both entertaining and avoids having to stand in the rain netting aquatic bugs every day. They're a little bigger now. Here's one concentrating on some tweezers I'm holding in my right hand. I can't help but tease them, it's a bit like the game where the cat chases the torch light.

These little guys are hilarious. In a few years my marms will be old enough to breed...can't wait!
How big are the larvae in the photos?

Molch,

I am totally not answering your question. Pardon me. The left overs at the bottom means you are feeding too many brine shrimp. Try cutting back on the amount you are adding,

Now this is the scare that I encountered earlier this week.

I have been dealing with brine shrimp for well over 5 years. However, I have always decapsulated (bleaching process) my brine shrimp. Now this was due to the fact that I have owned dwarf seahorses for many many years. In order for the dwarf seahorses to remain healthy, I had to decapsulate the brine shrimp. If I did not decapsulate, tiny jellyfish from not decapsulating would develop in the saltwater and kill the seahorse.

So any who, since I was feeding freshwater larvae, I did not have to worry about the this safety feature. So I was a little wobbly when it came to feeding brine shrimp that was what I considered "dirty". I was very fortunate in the fact that my larvae are little piglets when it comes to their food......THEY DO NOT PLAY!!!! I am not kidding. It looks like they are saying "Where's the beef?" when I am feeding them. My point is that they do not leave live food in the tank. They will at times fight until the food is GONE. If anything was left it was nothing in the way of food food. I have problems with the floating egg shells.

Now let me tell you about my scare and the end result..................
I was doing my weekly maintenance on the 5 gallon larvae tank. I was looking at the amount of egg shells that were left. So in my mind, I was looking for a way to get rid of the gunk. So I added a pretty much harmless (or so I thought) hang on overflow filter. Once it was assembled with the old media and a fresh filter cartridge inside the compartment, I noticed the turbulence was too much for the larvae. This was detrimental within a matter of hours. The majority of the larvae fell victim to stress. I had floaters. I had some that just did not look good. Color was pale with little or no signs of life left in their delicate bodies. So overnight I researched as much as I could until finally I felt that my entire crew was knocking at death's door. I knew that if my babies were to make to morph stage I had to do something and do it like "yesterday". I knew I had to make contact with someone PDQ!!!!.

God Bless HER>>>>>Dawn (otterwoman) came to my rescue. She even allowed me to call her. Gosh, I have not found anybody who are as dedicated to helping me with any of my creatures. This is what makes me want to put in as much as I can to this particular hobby. Dawn is the salt of the earth. She did some troubleshooting and she came up with stress from filtration and residual of salt from brine shrimp. She advised me to stop feeding brine shrimp. Also she recommended to do a 33% water change. Once I followed her instructions.......wow!!!!!! All my babies are safe and currently on a whiteworm diet with an order of blackworms in the hopper. They are slowly but surely getting back to themselves. Color has definitely come back.

Thank you so much Dawn!!!

Not only for helping me but the help you do for others. You are a selfless individual.

Now for the number of fatalities, Yes .......I lost some of my babies.

I lost about 5-6 that just could not shake the stress.

I am down to 17 out of the original number of 25.

What I learned from this lesson:

1) Feed live worms only!!

2) Go for open air line.....ditch the filtration idea.

3) Go for the dirty tank approach

4) Do not use brine shrimp.

Folks.....this was a mission of mercy.

My babies made it thanks to this forum and the most giving people I have known.

The good deeds will stay with me for a long time.

aah, good to know that the babes are fine now. I'm learning that if feeding brine shrimp, I do 100% water changes PLUS a new container 3-4 hours after the feeding or so. That day I lost two (so far the only losses) I was delayed and did not change the water until ca. 8 hrs later, which prooved to be too much.

My goal now: to cut back radically on brine shrimp and feed mostly Daphnia, chopped whiteworms and hopefully the blackworms I'll get in the mail next week. Fortunately, I have tons of Daphnia.

I think brine shrimp are fine for getting them started but the potential for pollution is huge, and it's best to switch to fresh water foods as soon as possible. And though they have advantages, feeding BBS has given me a few sphincter moments and some anxiety; that's why I have been asking all these OCD-questions about it

As for filters, I use sponge filters only. They have no suction and even the brine shrimp do not get sucked into them; they mostly offer surface area for bacterial colonization. They work very well in larvae tanks.

thanks for the kind words, esnailme, I was going to pm you today and ask how they were. I was actually going to yesterday but I fell asleep after work (for 12 hours, heaven).
I was telling her, I never use anything anymore to feed my larvae except for blackworms (and later whiteworms, when they are large enough to eat whole).
I mince them until they are big enough to eat whole. I don't like brine shrimp or anything else that is a lot of work when there are easier ways, and I use a dirty tank method, not doing any water changes maybe ever, until they morph, unless they are taking a long time to morph. I only use an air bubbler. It's all very simple. I think also that changing the water (like, because of brine shrimp) is stressful for them. I've had good luck raising larvae /eggs this way so I stick with it.

Molch,
Stick with your approach. I now know that there is an easier way.

Otterwoman
I learned a very valuable lesson.

The larvae are now adjusting to their new diet of whiteworms. I have a few that are stewing. They are looking as if to say.....Where are those pink thingys?

Now there a few that are a little fussy. I have seen a little pushing and shoving. Again, I try to stay out of their fights. It doesn't pay to get involved.