My local pond dipping results

Today I went field herping/pond dipping in my local pond.
I dipped in a few times, in the shallows,near some plants, on the bottom of the pond in the mud and finally in the middle near the bottom of the pond.
I netted a few newts when I tried in the middle of the pond near the bottom, I think I netted 3 newts in total 1 smooth newt (L. vulgaris) and I think 2 great crested newts (T. cristatus) which I returned.
It was evening time, the sun had gone down but it was still a bit light, it was/had been raining/drizzling so it was wet on the ground.
Here is the smooth newt I netted in a temporary setup

There is no picture, Sam.

I might be wrong but isn't it illegal to go anywhere near a great crested newt?

evut said:

I might be wrong but isn't it illegal to go anywhere near a great crested newt?

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It is illegal to deliberately disturb, capture or harm great crested newts. Accidental capture followed by immediate release should not lead to prosecution. However Sam is probably best avoiding dipping in sites of special scientific interest or ponds where he now knows great crested newts live.

smily sam said:

Today I went field herping/pond dipping in my local pond.
I dipped in a few times, in the shallows,near some plants, on the bottom of the pond in the mud and finally in the middle near the bottom of the pond.
I netted a few newts when I tried in the middle of the pond near the bottom, I think I netted 3 newts in total 1 smooth newt (L. vulgaris) and I think 2 great crested newts (T. cristatus) which I returned.
It was evening time, the sun had gone down but it was still a bit light, it was/had been raining/drizzling so it was wet on the ground.
Here is the smooth newt I netted in a temporary setup

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oops I din't attach the picture properly

evut said:

There is no picture, Sam.

I might be wrong but isn't it illegal to go anywhere near a great crested newt?

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Eva, as Ian said its illegal to purposefully seek out, disturb and/or capture them but it isn't if you didn't intentionally disturb/capture them. Here is an article about pond dipping and great crested newts, It says:

Although the pond contains great crested newts, I think I can avoid capturing
them by using very careful pond dipping methods or timing. Do I need a
licence for capturing?
No, if you do not capture newts. If you have no licence but exercise due care, law
enforcement bodies are unlikely to take action over occasional, inadvertent capture
of great crested newts.

What happened to me was that I netted all 3 newts at the same time, once I realised they where great crested newts I released them

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So you went out, broke the law, dipped some protected newts, and didn't even get a clear photo of them?!

Accidentally dipping and immediately releasing is not the same as dipping, putting in a container, taking photos, and releasing. You broke the law willfully. You knew they were protected, you already admitted it in the chat room. If you cared about this species you'd leave them alone and respect their protected status. I don't care if you're 12 or not.

Why did you even make this post?

KingCam said:

So you went out, broke the law, dipped some protected newts, and didn't even get a clear photo of them?!

Accidentally dipping and immediately releasing is not the same as dipping, putting in a container, taking photos, and releasing. You broke the law willfully. You knew they were protected, you already admitted it in the chat room. If you cared about this species you'd leave them alone and respect their protected status. I don't care if you're 12 or not.

Why did you even make this post?

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No I didn't that is a smooth newt, which isn't protected like a great crested newt, I knew they where protected this is why I released them. I do care about this species and respect there protected status.

What you must take into consideration is that every time you catch and handle one of these animals, it stresses them out and can expose them to chemicals and contaminants that are on your skin and clothing, as well as the equipment.

There's nothing really wrong with going out and seeing what animals are out there, checking them out and experiencing them. When you do it just for fun, however, you have to think about what your impact is having on them for the sake of just fun, not research or conservation.

Legally and ethically, if you know that you may come across a protected species and interact with it's habitat, you should avoid doing so and take greater care to avoid disturbing and interacting with them.

When you do want to go out and see what's out there, I suggest taking a few steps to reduce the amount of impact you have on all the critters, not just the GCN. Make sure you clean your nets off as much as possible when moving from one body of water to another, make sure you have clean equipment to hold them in while photographing, and make sure you handle them as LITTLE as possible. During breeding season, they can be even more vulnerable to disturbance and even simple things like hand lotion, soap and bug spray can affect their ability to breed.

Nothing wrong with having fun in the outdoors, but always remember that what you're doing is not natural to them and that you're a guest.

KingCam said:

So you went out, broke the law, dipped some protected newts, and didn't even get a clear photo of them?!

Accidentally dipping and immediately releasing is not the same as dipping, putting in a container, taking photos, and releasing. You broke the law willfully. You knew they were protected, you already admitted it in the chat room. If you cared about this species you'd leave them alone and respect their protected status. I don't care if you're 12 or not.

Why did you even make this post?

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Sam broke no law, he inadvertently captured a protected species, the law states that "deliberate" interference is an offense. Taking a photo prior to release may have constituted an offense, no photo here of them, just a photo of a smooth newt, a non protected UK species. If you wish to berate people for handling wild amphibians try a few other posts, there are loads of adults handling wild caught frogs, newts etc in this forum. Whilst I agree with your position on interference with wild creatures you may note that I gave a "like" for Cassie`s post and not yours, as she took the time to explain to a CHILD the error of his ways and not castigate him . Kids like Sam are the environmentalists of the future he needs encouragement and guidance not abuse.

well said, Ian. So here's an interested, concerned kid who loves newts and some folks want to come down on him for netting a couple newts and looking at them. If the law says that a kid can't even fish a newt out of a pond any more to admire it, but some damn corporation can come along the next day to bulldoze the whole pond so they can erect another shopping center - well, then the laws are bull. oh, well what do I know, I'm just an old hag...

Often, chance encounters by the public lead to the addition of sites to the ledger for areas to protect. So that's a plus. Was this a known great-crested locality? If not, report it.

Sam did not break any laws. The laws apply to GCNs, which he released as soon as he caught them (accidentally). As for the smooth newt, there is no law for those, so he did nothing illegal by keeping it and taking a picture. Also, he did not say that he kept dipping after he caught the three newts (all at once). As soon as he found out that it was GCN territory, he stopped. Also, while handling newts and keeping them may cause some amount of stress, it is nothing to worry about. Newts deal with stress every day, whether it be stress from searching for food or escaping the clutches of a predator. If you think about it, any interaction us humans (or in fact any kind of animal that newts have reason to fear) have with nature causes stress to the creatures involved. Just entering the proximity of a bird causes it stress, from getting frightened by us, which is why they always fly away when you get anywhere near them. But it is not stress they can't deal with. Nor stress that causes any kind of dangerous harm. Also, I am certain Sam knows what he needs to do to safely handle newts, so that is not a problem. Too bad the picture is so blurry, but hey, not all of us have good cameras. LOL. I would know.

Lamb said:

Often, chance encounters by the public lead to the addition of sites to the ledger for areas to protect. So that's a plus. Was this a known great-crested locality? If not, report it.

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It was known to that all 3 species bred there, that was my mistake
I had only seen smooth newts, in fact the day before I found a dead one, I went again to see if I could get a live one this time but I didn't intend on catching the great crested newts.

If you were dipnetting in known GCN habitat, then you know that the possibility of catching a GCN was there, whether it was your intent to catch one or not. Many a law does not take into account your intentions. If you knowingly dipped in ponds with GCN, you were intentionally harassing them/their habitat, regardless of your target species.

Do I agree with the laws? To a point. Do they restrict herpers? Yep. But that's the price we pay to enjoy our hobby, and to make it fair and equitable for everyone. It's the people that intentionally break the law (or cause undue ecological damage, regardless of the law) that cause consequences for all herp enthusiasts to bear.

I'm not sure, but I don't think he knew it was GCN territory, or even newt territory

I personally think we should use this as an experience to teach this young newt lover. Understanding can only lead to others understanding as well. When one person understands not to capture GCNs, others find out not to either. A 12 year old is likely to tell his fiends, his friends tell others, and so on. We should be teaching him about his errors. Not crucifying him for it.

It turns out they where all smooth newts

I apologize for reacting the way I did. Perhaps it was uncalled for, but there were things said in the chat rooms that influenced my decision to react that way.




Anyone who wants to read the full conversation can check out the chat history in the "Sliding through Mud" chatroom.

Sam, I'd like to say a few positive things about this situation. I think you're a good kid. You tell the truth even when it won't benefit you to do so, that's a rare quality in this world. You have a passion for herpetology, and that's awesome!!

We've all made mistakes, especially at age 12, but you made yours very public. People reading this thread need to know it's not okay to dip in ponds that are known to contain protected species! That's why I said what I said, and I apologize if I hurt your feelings.

I like you, and I hope you'll continue to pursue your passion.

Like I said in my message, be sure to find organizations and authorities that work with conservation and natural resources and get in touch with them. They are always looking for volunteers to help with 'citizen science' projects, and will be happy to see your enthusiasm. Even just notifying them of what you found, what you've observed and where you find them is good info for them.

nwmnnaturalist said:

Like I said in my message, be sure to find organizations and authorities that work with conservation and natural resources and get in touch with them. They are always looking for volunteers to help with 'citizen science' projects, and will be happy to see your enthusiasm. Even just notifying them of what you found, what you've observed and where you find them is good info for them.

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I have:happy: I am a member of my local AmphibianReptileGroup (ARG) group